And another member

[daveoftn]

I am already toying with Flourish and Flourish Excel, and have been researching the various dry methods such as EI. I've been a click away from ordering the ferts from Rex Grigg a zillion times, but I'm always hesitant since I dont wanna leave something out and have to pay double shipping.

If you get a chance, would you care to outline your EI regimen including tank size and how much iron? I would greatly appreciate it.

[bunnie1978]

Sure... to start, here is my shopping list...
I like the shipping charges at www.aquariumfertilizer.com/index.asp?Option1=products
You can get I think 6 pounds in a $6 flat rate box. I think. It's been a qhile since I ordered.

KNO3
CSM+B
DPTA Iron (it doesn't precipitate out) This I get from GLA
K2SO4
KH2PO4

Since I use RO water, I also get CaSO4 and Epsom salt, but you can skip that if you use tap water.

I do 1/4 tsp of each, except the KNO3 (nitrate) which gets 3/4 tsp each dosing. I can dose them all together because of the iron chelator. If I were to get the EDTA chelator, the iron would have a precipitation reaction with the potassium I think...or the phosphate? Cloudy water, unusable iron. I just dump them in dry. No mixing.

It's basically the same formula as EI, except I do the extra iron, and instead of 3 times a week, I do it twice a week on all the heavily planted tanks. This method is working great for me, I have no unwanted algae or greenwater or anything like that.

[daveoftn]

Thanks for the input! What size tank is that recipe for? I am guessing a 55g?

[bunnie1978]

75g

[daveoftn]

And the last question, how much water do you change? EI says 50% weekly, but I am guessing since you have cut that down that you are doing 25-30%?

[bunnie1978]

No, I still do 50% weekly on my 75 display, and 50% twice weekly on my 29g softwater tanks -Apistos and angels. I'm shooting for soft water in those, so not all plants will work, but I have been pretty happy with the results. Other than higher TDS in the 75 the water parameters are about the same. I also have more CO2 going in, andmany, many, manymore fish. The 75 would be considered grossly overstock by traditional fishkeepers that go by the 1 inch per gallon rule. But I still have 0 Nitrates in the morning before dosing, and 10-15 after dosing.

[spoot]

Welcome Dave! My wife and I are taking a trip to Chatt this weekend to check out the Chattanooga Aquarium. Any fish stores you would reccomend? We always like to check those out. Lurking this thread btw. I'm in the same situation you are, right on the cusp of trying CO2.

[daveoftn]

Well, I got my Milwaukee 957 CO2 setup in the mail yesterday. Now I'm just waiting on the reactor pieces and the ferts. I took an aquascaping class in Atlanta on Sunday, so I will probably be re-arranging my plants to try and make it look artsy.

For fish stores, the best one is "Bermuda Triangle". It's on the other side of town close to the mall, and in that same area are zillions of restaurants. Their prices aren't TOO bad, normally 10-20% higher than Petsmart, but their stock is 100x better in quality and health.

There's another store closer to the aquarium on Ringgold Road, but it's very small, not much of a selection, and I have seen barns that were cleaner as far as the tanks and store itself. ><

Also, near the aquarium is another really good store that sells Phish Food. I love the Ben and Jerry shop.

[spoot]

Definitely let me know how the milwaukee does. It's one I'm looking at as well. Most of the problems I've read about with them lean toward user error. Follow those directions, and good luck!

I think we're going to go to Merv's for lunch. One of my friends here at work keeps going on and on about it. I'll check out the Triangle while we're in town. We'll make a day, or maybe 2 of it.

[daveoftn]

The Milwaukee is fine, only prob is the needle valve needs adjusting everytime the solenoid disengages/engages. So for me, it's turned out to be $110ish total.

I noticed your other post, and here are my thoughts:
If you have the money or have super expensive fish, go for the GLA regulator.
If you have a modest amount of money, get the regulator from Rex Grigg and add the Fabco needle valve.
If you're on a super budget and are comfortable tinkering, get the Milwaukee 957 and buy a Fabco NV55 Valve.
If you're on an extreme super budget or just want to play around, go with DIY CO2 (it's a little more work each week, but roughly same results).

For reactor:
If you have a canister filter with good GPH, consider Rex Grigg's reactor. It's simple, quiet, efficient, and hidden. You can buy it for $25 +shipping or put it together yourself for about $20. If you put it together yourself, you need to be comfortable working with PVC. Most hardware store will help you out though, especially if you go to one like Ace.

If you don't have a canister filter, I would use a Hagen Elite Mini-filter that costs about $10 at Petco. It takes about 2 minutes of modification that anyone can do. Here is the link:

www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html

If you go DIY CO2, ignore the threads that use sugar and water. If you do it properly with Lalvin K1V wine yeast, and with a jello/protein powder recipe, the performance is very impressive that lasts much much longer than a baker's yeast sugar recipe.

For fertilizers, I would recommend getting them from GLA just because you REALLY want to get his type of iron. For what to get, use Bunnie's advice above and this link:

www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/15225-estimative-index-dosing-guide.html

[ree123]

Hey Dave, where does one buy the Lalvin K1V wine yeast and the Jello/Protein powder ?
And where does one find this receipe you reference to ? In all my readings on the plant forums I have not run across a thread that describes this. Can you guide me further ?
Thanks. Rick

[daveoftn]

Lalvin Yeast can be bought at a hobbyist brewer's store (recommended) or ebay for $3.50 shipped (buy it soon before the summer high temps kill the yeast in the mail):

cgi.ebay.com/2-PACKS-Lalvin-K1v-wine-making-yeast-/150387636958?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2303cd3ade

Here is the Jello Recipe, it's kinda complex, but the logic is the jello will keep the yeast out of the alcohol longer letting it live longer. I'm not sure it's worth the effort though:

forums.tfhmagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&p=310004

The Protein Powder/Nyberg method (the overall best), as mentioned in the article, never rinse out the sludge in the bottom of the bottle, it's yeast that you can reuse:

www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/new-planted-aquariums/3688-nyberg-co2-method.html

Be sure to google "DIY CO2 Nyberg 2 weeks" or something like that, people have tweaked the recipe to make it go steady for 2 in some cases 3 weeks using a 2 liter bottle.

A must-read powerpoint about it and DIY Co2 in general:

www.aquatic-gardeners.org/Nyberg_yeast.ppt

[ree123]

Dave,
This is a detailed and multi step process set-up. Is the time worth it in your opinion ?
How much extra time does one gain in the production for all the added expense and time to do all this ?
And, I see the link you provide for the yeast via e-bay. I also see there are about 5 different types of yeast for making wines and each seems to be different. Why the Lalvin yeast and not the others ?
And, I have no idea how long a pack of this stuff lasts or how much I will need. Looks like one can order more than 2 packs and find discounts. Should I order more and store in the frig. for later use ? How much do you use of a pack with every 1 gallon or 2 gallon container that you mix up ?
Your additional guidance will be appreciated.
And thanks for all the links above. Very helpful.

[daveoftn]

For repeatedly buying the yeast, it depends on the recipe you use. If you use a simple sugar/water recipe, the yeast will more than likely all get killed. If you use the jello or protein powder recipe, the yeast can be salvaged in the bottom (thus you never have to buy yeast again in theory). Never buying yeast again is even more true if you use two bottles instead of one.

The differences in yeast are their alcohol tolerance before they die and how rapidly they make the alcohol. There are others that have the exact same properties as the K1V by other companies and even Lalvin. However, I know the K1V has the highest alcohol tolerance of any yeast and produces alcohol (and thus Co2) at a steady rate compared to others.

For the setup, it depends on your tank and how much CO2 you need. If I remember correctly, for anything smaller than a 30g, start off by using a single 2-liter bottle. That will last you anywhere from 2-4 weeks. 30g or bigger, use (2) 2-liter bottles but alternate them each week.

For controlling the flow, ideal conditions for yeast is dark, wet, and warm. The cooler the temp, the slower the yeast multiplies and the longer it takes for the yeast to die. Some people put the 2-liters in a 10-gallon aquarium with a heater on a timer so the temp goes down at night.

I didn't see much of a difference using Jell-O. I think the key to DIY Co2 is a good quality yeast ($3.50 investment) and nutrients beyond just sugar to make the yeast cells as healthy as possible (letting them survive longer in the alcohol). For protein powder, it's a ~$20 investment, but using 2 tsp a week (assuming you change out 1 of 2 bottles every week to week and a half) will last you a long time.

Dont use gallon jugs, use either fruit juice jugs or 2-liters. For how much yeast to start with, it doesn't really matter. Just take a pack and split it in half between the two containers. Most of it will die when alcohol levels peak. After that, you will just re-use whatever lived.

Hope this helps!

PS I really encourage you to look at the Powerpoint link. It's the best, and that author only changed out his jugs every 3-4 weeks at once...

[bunnie1978]

DIY CO2...
I had what I believe to be a good system set up for my 75g.
I had 4 2l bottles, I changed out one each week, so the CO2 levels were as steady as I could make them. EASY recipe - 1/2 tsp yeast, 2 cups sugar, warm tap water to about 3 inches from the top. Shake, add my nifty top with the airline coming out.

That's it. Staggered the bottles, had great but not perfect (and certainly not low maintenance) results. Drawbacks? A little messy, still inconsistant levels which were uncontrollable, and cyanobacteria (because I wasn't adding ferts and the nitrate ran too low). Also, can't turn it off at night which is a little risky. But it's easy to set up an airstone on a timer to just come on at night.