All of the ties that bind...

[nitroglyc]

K, so I decided that since I don't have ammonia test strips, I decided to take some water to the critter to have it tested for ammonia and I needed to check on a few things as well (future reef setup stuffs). My tanks have all been running for about the same length of time give or take a day or two, starting about 3-4 months ago. Now I am really curious as all the fish that I have are still alive, healthy, and apparently happy. I was told that I needed to cycle my tank cause it has never cycled. ?? Interesting... I am also getting some confusion on when to do water changes. I have been doing about 10% a week on each of them, and vacuuming the gravel and changing filters on the power filters once a month. Can someone tell me exactly step by step what I need to do, cause apparently I am way off base here according to some, but according to others, I have been doing everything the way that it should be done.

[signde]

why are you being told your tanks never cycled? what were the water parameters?

cycling a tank can be fishless but you don't want to do that if you already have fish because it involves ammonia which is very toxic to the fish. if you already have had fish in your tank for a while then you have an ammonia source. your problem at this point might be the lack of biological filtration.

not to discount the critter but it all depends on who you talked to there. i live very close to the critter so i go there quite often and just browse. some of the people there know what they are talking about. others are completely clueless and you should run from them. hate to be negative, but calling it like i see it.

[jon carman]

The cycle goes like this. Fish poop and some food is not eaten. That turns to ammonia. Then a bacteria feeds off that and turns ammonia into nitrite. Both of these are deadly to fish. Then another bacteria turns that into nitrates. Nitrates are only deadly in high quantities, which is why we do water changes. That dilutes the nitrates. Fish will die if they are not really tough which is why they tell you to do a fishless cycle or start out with a really tough fish.

Once everything is cycled, you start doing water changes. I do 30-50% once a week. On the front tank in my room I do it 2 times a week most of the time. Your filter is where this bacteria grows and they need air and water movement to thrive. Any type of aquarium grade sponge will do the trick. Some use carbon as well.

What you could be doing is stalling the process by doing so many small water changes. That might not be an issue as long as you have good filtration to get the colony of bacteria going. I would just get test run. If you are this far along and showing any ammonia or nitrites, you have major problems. If nitrates are all you have and they are high, do a 30% water change. If you have any more questions just post here and I will check back.

[nitroglyc]

That is what I was thinking. So I need to keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites. I know that when it cycles completely it will, from what I have been told in the past, be nonexistent over night; at which point I start water changes. This is where I guess I am a little confused. I keep getting conflicting stories. Some people say that I need to never do a weekly water change and only do a monthly and clean the filter cartridge (replacing it every couple of months or so). Some say that I need to do about a 10% weekly, then vacuum the gravel once a month and replace my cartridge once a month. But the way you explain it, it sounds like after the ammonia and nitrites hit 0, watch the nitrates and keep them low as possible by doing water changes as needed. Does that sound right, or am I still off in left field?

[angel]

What were the water test results?

If you're running a biological filter you don't have to change anything. You will instead take the sponge out and rinse it in a bucket of tank water or dechlorinated water, then put the sponge back in. If you're using a cartridge filter it gets replaced monthly, but those have potential to throw your tank into a cycle as you're throwing out your good bacteria with the old cartridge. In that case, run two of them on each tank and replace the cartridges alternately. It helps.
We change 30-50% of our water weekly, and use sponge filters in the tanks downstairs, vacuuming the sand each time. Everyone's been fine and no cycling issues. There have been busy weeks we've skipped and the tanks have gone 2 weeks and other than being harder to clean, still no issues. I just prefer not to chance it with a lot of the fish being big.

[vladsbtch]

I have to agree with signde about the critter. I worked there and if you need real answers go to the older guys that work there. Be very careful about going to the youngsters. That way you are talking to people who do know what they are talking about.

Jon gave a very good description of what cycling is. I have explained that to newbie fish people at the critter to explain why they need to cycle the tank. 90% of the people would listen to me and then you would have the 10% who would do what they wanted and were back with dead fish within a week. Of course their water was very bad and no refund. That can get ugly too.

I change all of my tanks 30% weekly and siphon my gravel every other week. Well except for my fry tanks get a 25% water change every other day. I run totally biological filters. I use only sponge filters and under gravel filters. The sponge filters get cleaned when they need it and I siphon the under gravel filter lift tubes once a month. I also have double filtration on most of my tanks. That also helps when I set up a new tank I have a filter with the good bacteria in it to help with cycling a new tank. My tanks are always 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and around 5 nitrates.

I am curious as to what your readings were?

[signde]

Recommended reading...

Water Changes
www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_changes.php

Nitrogen Cycle
www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

[nitroglyc]

The latter that you guys is what I have been doing. Like I said up till this point everything has been fine. The guy I talk to at the critter was an older gentleman kind of balding, and had a ponytail. Said that all was fine except I needed to let my tank cycle... my thought, if my fish are alive, and I am only doing a 10% each week, then my tank has cycled. George, I set it up like you described how you set your new tanks up... I used a power filter with the bacterial colony already established... and like I said, I was only curious about my true pH lvl as I don't have a test for pH that is clear enough, and no ammonia tests at all. I was just curious about my lvls. I think I am fine as this tank has never been completely empty, and has housed fish for several months without any deaths. Sig, I will check those articals out. I don't know... maybe the way that I explained it confused that guy.

[signde]

At this point we need to know what your levels are to offer anymore advice. Did they not give you your readings?

[nitroglyc]

I asked several times, and all he would say is: "They are fine, your ammonia is a little high, but that will go away when your tank cycles." I have no clue what they are, as I am also out of test strips.

[signde]

Ammonia should be zero. It is very toxic to fish. Even low levels over time will cause problems. What filtration do you have on this tank?

[nitroglyc]

Sponge Filter

[bunnie1978]

Plants change how a tank cycles because they absorb ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. It's entirely possible to have a planted tank take 6 months or more to culture the beneficial bacterias. Now if you don't have plants, then it's likely that a chemical you've added perhaps Amquel or AmmoLock or something similar has created a problem. I've never had that issue myself, but I've read about others having it.

There are no prescriptions for perfect care that will work universally the same with every tank. What works for Jon might not work for me, depending on lots of different factors. Most of the advise that's been given is a great place to begin though. Just keep in mind, your fish are t he BEST indication of your tank water quality. If they behave and eat normally, and the water is clear, you don't likely have any significant issues. Also keep in mind, what we think a "clean" tank is, isn't necessarily what fish prefer the best. Depends on the fish. Take Apisto for example, they really like gobs of mulm and decaying plant matter....

[bunnie1978]

You know, another thing that could create a spike in ammonia is any dead fish, or if your PH is a little too high or a little too low, the beneficial bacterias aren't as efficient.

[nitroglyc]

Well, I don't have any plants in the tank 'cept plastic. the last known reading for the tank in question (only what I have been able to test of course) are as follows

nitrate: Between 20 and 40 ppm still in safe range according to test sheet
nitrite: between .5 and 1 ppm in the caution level according to test sheet
GH: between 75 and 150 ppm, according to research acceptable for Malawi cichlids
Chlorine: 0 (well water from underground stream/river)
KH: between 80 and 120 ppm
and last known pH: around 7.2

I know for most tropicals these are ideal. I would like to still raise my pH to about 8.2, but I have been told that where it is now is acceptable. I have tested once per week, till I ran out of my test strips pre and post water changes, and they are consistent without flux. I don't really know what the ammonia levels are, but the fish don't really seem stressed or are not showing any signs, i.e. scraping rocks, labored breathing, typical stress behavior. I have also been told that aside from Ammonia, if all other parameters are non-changing, then everything is fine. I hope that this kind of gives a better idea of where I am.