Excuse me officer!!!

[fuzzylogic]

Maybe one of the officers can answer this Im not sure. It seems every time I need a quick and easy profile of a fish I hop over to cichlid-forum and look it up. I didn't know if since we use Proboards that this was an option or not. I know we have some very good photographers on here and a wealth of knowledge from the members. Correct me if Im wrong but wouldn't a profile section with a brief description, great photo of male and female with basic info for all of the cichlids be a great resource to have on here?

[jon carman]

Yes, I have been thinking about that for a while. We might be able to do it on the MCAAfish.com website better. I am trying to recruit a couple of computer savy members to help me make the website better and more of a tool we can use. The problem on here is that there is no good way I can find to organize it for easy access. But it is a great thought and will be done once we figure out the best and easiest way to do it.

At one time in the african section I did a rough version of this but stopped, so if you go back far enough you might find my sad attempt at it.

[jon carman]

Would we be able to keep what we have? or would it be a start all over?

[crazydaz]

Is this strictly a cichlid forum?? What about tetras? Catfish? Plants? I would suggest that we already know of other sites to use for our personal resources. Adding specific sections for certain kinds of fish is fine if you want to limit the amount of traffic on this site as it is currently advertised as being more generic.

[fuzzylogic]

yeah and keeping it vague and general is awesome if you want to limit the amount of traffic to the point that it only gets visited regularly by 6 people. Every successful forum I've ever been on thrives on obtaining the highest level of resources for the hobby. Why would you assume the profile only had to be for and about cichlids? Why would you want to go to many different sites if you could get everything you needed right here? Im constantly trying to improve on what I already believe is a good foundation. Instead of being negative why don't you give us your ideas of how we could make this club better. You may want to try the home tab out. There already are specific sections on this site. Who says there can't be a reference section that pertains to every thing already listed there.

[bnoel210]

Having that here on this site would also attract new members just for the fact when someone Googled a profile our forum would come up. I would volunteer any help with this project.

[crazydaz]

I didn't assume anything, fuzz. Go back and re-read your first post. You know, the last sentence, Brah!

maybe you guys should rename this forum Music City Cichlids Association. The base certainly seems to be interested in that. And I hate to disagree with you but, but there aren't yet too many regular members here either. It is what it is, not "negative'" rather "reality."

so, you would recommend starting profiles on everything fish and plant related? And that wouldn't be considered a bit overwhelming? After all, you are suggesting that this isn't just a cichlid forum, right? I'm all for being positive and making suggestions for improvements like you are doing, but as this is a somewhat local forum, we are already working with limited resources and personnel, not to mention time. I suggest using links to provide our members with the profiles they are in need of, at least until this site has enough members to undertake such a task.

sorry....I didn't know you would take such an exception to someone who has a difference of opinion than you. No offense, but as a former moderator from a planted tank site in Michigan, I am coming at your suggestion from a different angle. Not "better," just different.

[bnoel210]

I think it would be a good idea. Its obviously not something that would be done in a few months, but i think we should do it and ill help with it.

[jon carman]

The forum and the club is for all fish, a lot of the fish I have and sell does not have a profile on the cichlid forum, and some that I do have, the photographer has pulled their pic.

We are currently discussing changing the name of the forum to better represent the club, as in mcaaforums.com. This forum was originally just for my customers Q&A when I had my musiccitycichlids business. Then as it grew and expanded, there was interest in a club and this being the central piece for that. So I see why there is confusion about the forum.

As far as being like the other forums, I don't ever see us getting that big just because they are world wide and we are local/regional. Either way, if we just profile what we keep, it would be a cool library of info and can't hurt. It will be a big job.

I think the biggest challenge here is retaining the people we do get. If you look we have over 200 users, and what happens is that 3-5 will get into fish for about 3-6 months and then just disappear. Others log on but keep fish as a 10 minute hobby and don't want to spend any more time than that on a forum.

[crazydaz]

Sorry Fuzz...I didn't mean to shoot down the idea; rather, I am playing devil's advocate. For now, it is a very large undertaking. Also, I would innocently question where the profiles would come from? Would you advocate something like PlantedTank.net where users who have real life experience create a profile on Kribs (for example) and others can add to it? Or, would there be information taken from a literary source or assumed "expert" on the specie of interest?

Both ways have some serious issues! If you take information from another source, that requires credit be given to said source and permission to re-print here on the site for legal reasons. Also, from my experience on reading plant and fish profiles in books over years, different authors have slightly to vastly different facts on the same plants and fish! So, if the "experts" can't agree on information on the same species, how the heck is a hobbyist supposed gain information on that? The best any "expert" can do is arrive at a general consensus with the other "experts."

Conversely, if this forum opts to go a similar route as PlantedTank.net, there brings about a new set of issues. Read their profile on Kribs, for instance. Some users on there states that Kribs are relatively peaceful and easy to breed, while others say that Kribs are very aggressive and do best in a species-only tank. Some people have success with a pair of Kribs, others suggest have 2-4 females per male to keep everything peaceful in the tank. I actually read somewhere that Convicts and Jack Dempseys could be used in a planted community tank, which defies my common sense. So, the "weakness" (in my opinion) is that you have many conflicting but equally valuable opinions and experience within the same profile. Who is to say who is right or which opinion is better than someone elses opinion if they are both based on real life experience. Again, the best you can do is reach a general consensus amongst hobbyists, which can be tricky to do.

So, I would state that Fuzzy is right: we do need to improve upon this site to drive more traffic and make it a useful tool for the enthusiast. I totally agreed with him on the Fish Raffle, and that there are work-arounds just about anything. But, this is a tricky and enormous undertaking. However: you have to start somewhere, right? ;-)

Again: this is simply my opinion. And to Fuzzy's credit, it is always easier for someone like me to play armchair quarterback and point out potential difficulties and problems. There is a lot of value in his numerous suggestions, and I really do agree that we need to keep coming up with ideas to move forward and improve the site. I would personally start with something a little smaller. Could we start by listing our personal resources that we have used or sworn by in the past? Books, magazines, websites, etc. that have proven to be very helpful, and would other hobbyists be able to comment on those resources?

[fuzzylogic]

No problem crazydaz,
I make it a point not to agrue on the internet but I did take it personal upon first read. Your tone came off like you were ripping the forum apart because a large base is mainly interested in cichlids. You also had to call out the size of the group and I took offense. I did say cichlids when I started the thread but had open minded intentions. I went into a bit of a rant because this thread is all over the place as is. I posted it under suggestions and to me this is basically a brainstorming area.

We all know the site has issues. The names and urls are all over the place. The club is trying to get off the ground. Members are new, and they are also few and far between. I personally think many changes from a structural standpoint may be confusing to everyone and could be a huge undertaking. This is why I just threw out one off the cuff idea related to something I would like to see this site have.

As far as the profile pros and cons I really appreciated your input and agree with most of your points. Yes I think it will be a big project, but I also think it is something that would be ongoing. If it was setup to where we could all participate I personally would have no problem creating 10 or so. It would be silly to try and do this all at once. I completely disagree with stoney about linking to some other sites database. Like you said for legal reasons we need to do everything independently. I also think that even the experts disagree, but if we started with basic facts and a couple of photos it would be a great tool. We all understand that temperaments vary from fish to fish and environment plays a part as well. There are many variables to consider. I'm like you in thinking that what works for some may not work the same for others. I do think that this really depends on how we designed it how it would work. For example if many members created some profiles following the same basic format I don't think it would be a bad idea for them to leave a small review based on their own experiences. And even if no one else likes this idea the Photos, with very basic details would be a great start.

You know I really think we have some true hobbyist on this forum and a strong wealth of knowledge. I also think we can make it much better. For example, you could probably school me when I start my planted tank project. I don't think it would be too much to ask to have a section on plants with some pics, if they require low tech or high tech setups and what not. I think it would generate buzz around a facet of the hobby some members have yet to explore. The fish raffle to me was a great idea to keep people interested in the site to give them yet another reason to keep coming back. As with anything I know it would have its setbacks too but I'm not scared to give it a shot. Ill start the thing and ship a fish. We are all adults and understand that there may be a learning curve. I still think it would be worth the dollar or two risk involved. You do have to start somewhere.

After your very respectable rebuttal I truly do value your opinion. I also welcome criticism. I would rather cover my bases and address potential mistakes up front. As far as our personal resources I believe there is already a link thread out there with just the things you mentioned. I'm merely trying to get everything contained with this site. I want something that I am a part of be worth going to. I want this club better and I'm not afraid of rolling up my sleeves and getting dirty to do so. I will start the raffle. I will profile every fish that I own if that's what it takes. I will tell you the 3 sentences I know about saltwater. shoot I'll even post a profile on Hornwort that says its so user friendly you can grow it in a toilet. lol but seriously I do think we can make this a very cool forum. I appreciate everyone's honesty and I wasn't trying to offend or impose my will. I just want to be the guy that makes it better instead of the guy that complains because it isn't.

[allierw]

I think a wiki-type undertaking might be more useful than profiles like you see on the c-f. They do a good job covering the most common species, but I'd like to see more pics and personal articles with people sharing their experiences. Same for most plants and tropical species. Articles about member's experiences setting up fish rooms, ponds, etc would also be very helpful, especially for people that might come here and be total newbs.

BTW, for those that see ads--if you use Mozilla firefox, you can download Ad Block Plus as an extension to your browser, and it eliminates basically all ads. I don't see any on this site when viewing from FF. Google Chrome may also have an extension, but I am not as familiar with it. Very simple and easy to do, plus FF is a more secure browser than internet explorer. Just an FYI.

[fuzzylogic]

I agree Allierw. I think that would be a nice touch!!!

[signde]

i really dislike proboards as a forum software. a much better solution would be phpbb, which is open source (aka free). it would require hosting, but hosting is cheap. it would also require setup, but that is pretty simple as well.

i believe i looked into proboards to phpbb conversions. i think i found some. i don't have access to the proboards admin back end but if they provide a way to export the contents of your current board i bet phpbb has an importer. if that is the case the only challenge would be directing users to the new board. there are worse problems to have.

if we can't import the current forum to a new one, then the value in migrating becomes diminished.

as far as starting a species profiles section, i don't think the club or forum are mature enough for that yet. as far as i am concerned, cichlid forums is THE authority for cichlid profiles. i think trying to compete with them would be a waste of time.

i would envision a unified site for both the club and the forum. would basically copy the cichlid forum's model. one site with subsections for the club, forum, photos, photo contests, etc. its a proven structure - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

/end soap box

[bnoel210]

If we talked to the admins over there on cichlid forums would there be a way to put a profile search in our forum and would bring us directly to the needed profile on there forum.