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Post by fishguy on Dec 23, 2011 15:08:59 GMT -6
Hey Everybody,
I'm a new member as of this week, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you. I could use some advice.
I am working on the wife to let me move up to a six foot tank, and I've been watching CL for candidates. I'd like some input on sump vs. canister filtration. This would be a freshwater setup. I'm very familiar with and I like canisters. I like that they're quiet, allow me to tune my bio, mechanical, and chemical filtration, don't require attention every week, and can create good water flow into the tank. I've never used a sump system, so I don't know whether I'd like one, or what to look for in a good one vs. a crappy one. It seems like most of the larger tanks I look at have them, but I'm nervous buying something I know so little about. I'm wondering if a sump is quiet - like canister quiet. I prefer not hear my filters at all when the stand doors are shut and I'm standing a few feet away. I also wonder if it turns into a big brown diatom colony if I don't scrub it out every weekend - so that I end up with two tanks to clean vs. just one. And then, knowing me, I figure I'll mess up the plumbing and have my tank water all over the floor one day. Is that like a zero possibility thing or a real possibility thing?
All of you running sumps - would you go that way again? Any do's or don'ts for me? If I buy a tank with a used sump included, what do I want to see - and what do I NOT want to see?
Sorry for so many questions, but one final one. Since I know it'd be freshwater, should I care if a used tank has been running salt?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by davidtcb1 on Dec 23, 2011 16:53:35 GMT -6
Welcome fishguy! We are glad to have you and hope you will find a good online fish home here.
Sumps are generally more noisy than canisters. Falling water is the cause of this, and I've never heard one quieter than a high quality canister. You get more biological filtration with a sump (using bio balls or some other good form of media) than with a canister. I'd say maintenance somewhat easier IMO with a sump than with canisters. For a freshwater setup, it would basically just be rinsing out the mechanical media pad and sponge once or twice a month when you do your routine maintenance. Perhaps a couple times a year you'd want to suck out built up detritus that collects in the chambers over time, but with logical feeding this is less of an issue. For me, a sump on six foot saltwater or reef tank would be fairly mandatory, but with a freshwater system, I'd throw a couple of Fluval, Rena or Eheim canisters on there and call it good. Especially since you seek quiet/near silent operation. Any sump or canister can at some point leak, though both are rare if you get them set up leak free from the get-go. With a sump you have to be careful that you don't overfill the system when "topping off." In case of a power outage, the sump can over flow with tank water if you have too much in the system. In other words, the excess tank water would be too much for the sump to hold as it falls over the overflow inside the tank (and before the level of the tank gets low enough for water to stop falling). This is usually what gets people in trouble with sumps.
I wouldn't be too concerned if the tank had been a salt tank. When you fill it to check it for leaks, I'd just give it a good scrubbing, empty and fill again.
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Post by davidtcb1 on Dec 23, 2011 16:58:04 GMT -6
The other good part of a sump is that you can put other hardware in the sump and get it out of the tank...heater, thermometer, etc. Less clutter in the tank.
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Post by mruble on Dec 23, 2011 16:59:19 GMT -6
I currently run a few sumps. A 240 gl with a 65 gl sump and two 55 gl's with 20 gl sumps. All set-ups are as quiet as a canister system. I clean the foam filters about every three to four months, and I vacuum the media chambers about once a year. I would recommend a drilled tank over a siphon-box set-up. Loss of a siphon tube could result in over flowing the tank. Also make sure your sump is large enough so you don't over flow it in the event of a power failure. I personally favor a sump over canister.
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Post by davidtcb1 on Dec 23, 2011 17:06:23 GMT -6
I agree with Mark that a pre-drilled tank is better than the hang on back sump boxes. They can be a pain.
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Post by fishguy on Dec 23, 2011 17:20:38 GMT -6
Thanks to you both for the info, and the warm welcome.
I like the plus'es you both pointed out. Hiding the hardware and having an extra tank to use for isolation/water quality management are both strong advantages over a canister to me.
There's a difference of opinion on quietness, I see. Do sumps always work off an overflow principal, or can they use the pump to pull water from the tank through a tube over the back, into the sump, then push it back into the tank? Seems like an overflow would be kind of gurgly like water running down a pipe in the walls of a house, but the second could be done with no air in the lines, so it might be quiet? I know people use sumps on tanks that don't have built in overflows, but I'm not sure how that works, exactly.
Do either of you have any advice on what makes a good vs. bad sump design? Key things to look for or avoid? Is there a general guideline for sump size vs. tank size?
Stoney - you're going to come over and do my tank layout when I ever get one, right? Your 125 rocks.
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Post by fishguy on Dec 23, 2011 17:22:54 GMT -6
Woah - in the time I wrote that last response, several others posted. Thanks! And sump fans, I see. Kinda sounds like a personal preference kind of thing here, and I'd be good either way I go.
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Post by bnoel210 on Dec 23, 2011 18:01:55 GMT -6
I haven't tried either I'm just running emperor 400 and aquaclear 110 on everything, but after the holidays when i recoup from Christmas I will be investing in at least 3 canister for my 55, 72 and 125. My reasoning behind not going with a sump is that just takes up room I can put an entire new setup even if its under a tank. I like to put grow out tanks there or I'm thinking about starting to grow my plants there also.
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Post by davidtcb1 on Dec 23, 2011 19:25:29 GMT -6
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Post by rick on Dec 23, 2011 21:05:20 GMT -6
sumps are very good i however use a fluval fx5 on my 125 and have been very pleased and cannot hear it running. tank is crystal clear!
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Post by fishguy on Dec 23, 2011 21:44:37 GMT -6
Thanks guys for all the great info.
David - I appreciate you taking the time to put in those links. They helped me understand things much better.
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Post by davidtcb1 on Dec 23, 2011 21:49:40 GMT -6
Sure thing.
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Post by ree123 on Dec 24, 2011 1:10:24 GMT -6
If you still want a cannister, there is a used Eheim 2215 currently being offered in our classifieds.
I use a Eheim 2217 and have had no bad experiences with it.
I cannot speak to sumps in your all's conversations, as I have never had one.
Very interesting reading though.
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