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Post by frankandnick on Apr 15, 2012 14:17:47 GMT -6
We are having a problem and I'm hoping you guys can help.
A lot of are adults have been having problems. It seems its all about bacterial infection. This has killed 3 pairs of angels and deformed some fry (fins bending fin rot ext,)
This started about a month ago and we have been treating with a few kinds of meds. Buy none seems to effect there health.
I (Nick) am thinking its the food that is doing this.
This started about 2 weeks after we switched from angels plus food to omega-one color flake.
Could the food be causing this problem because are water is perfect and each tank has its own sponge filter and none are attached to other tanks.
Despite are water being great we have done daily 50% water changes and this with the meds does not seem to be improving there health.
If it isn't the food and the water is great then I am truly stumped.
We use ro water with ro right and tap water with prime for water changes.
The frys look fine with the exception of some bending fins\fin rot.
The adult\juv angels them-self are at the top of the water in some tanks at the bottom in others some have red\pink gill plates and others look perfectly normal. They all eat the omegaone color flakes.
Also as a side note this seems to only be effecting angels i have rams in the same tanks and they are just fine.
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Post by bnoel210 on Apr 15, 2012 15:15:51 GMT -6
Did you recently get any new fish? What exactly are your water parameters? I woulfnt think a food could do this and I myself use some of the Omega One foods. Only one way to know for sure though is go back yo your old food. Im not an Angel guy so cant help out to much. Hope some others can help you ouy.
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Post by AlanM on Apr 15, 2012 15:46:45 GMT -6
Rick (the prez) is the resident angelmeister. He's been raising angels for a long time.
I doubt the food is your problem. I have angels and they do fine with Angels Plus food, Tetra flakes, and Jon Carman's food, too. They don't seem to care, as long as it's food.
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Post by kyangelsncorys on Apr 15, 2012 16:10:19 GMT -6
I have raised angels off and on since 1974 at one time i had 9 pr, i dought the food is the problem if the water is good and the temp is ok then my guess would be angel aids , it made its rounds back a few yrs ago and when your fish get it there is nothing you can do to cure them it has to run its course. does your fish stop eating a day or two before they die? you can spread it so many diff ways by using the same net in all your tanks by wets hands dripping in other tanks thats just a couple of ways. but lets hope thats not what you have maybe Rick has a idea.
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Post by Jess Puff on Apr 15, 2012 17:04:12 GMT -6
I seem to remember Tina aka angel had an issue like this a while back. Hopefully she'll see this thread and comment.
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Post by mikew65 on Apr 15, 2012 17:56:35 GMT -6
Have you checked under the hoods? Sometimes crud can build up there that is a bacterial breeding ground and constantly dripping in the tank would be why the meds may not be helping. Usually fry with bent fins can be water quality or overcrowding. Have you been doing daily 50% water changes since they hatched?
Mike
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Post by plecoman on Apr 15, 2012 19:19:11 GMT -6
I don't think it would be the food either. I use omega one color flake, and know several others that use it, and we've never had any issues with it.
Melafix works good for fin rot. You didn't say what type of meds you are using. Also a UV sterilzer would be great to use, if you had one. I have two UV sterilizers and they have worked great when I needed them.
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Post by frankandnick on Apr 17, 2012 17:59:30 GMT -6
I don't think it would be the food either. I use omega one color flake, and know several others that use it, and we've never had any issues with it. Melafix works good for fin rot. You didn't say what type of meds you are using. Also a UV sterilzer would be great to use, if you had one. I have two UV sterilizers and they have worked great when I needed them. I'm certain at the point the 1 koi pair has a bladder problem. Both tanks are almost the same. 10 nitrate 0 nitrite 120ppm hardness 20 alkalinity 7 pH 250 conductivity 0 ammonia and I keep the room at 78 deg. Water change using ro with ro right as a water conditioner or tap and prime. We have been doing 50% water changes every 1-2 days on are sick tanks. I'm using melafix by API for treatment. After looking around I actually think water quality was the problem some of the omega one food was sitting at the bottom of the tanks. We actually blend it up in a food processor to make it bite side and blend it up in a blender to make it dust for are pea size fish. Anything under pea size gets live brine. It seems that food rots a lot faster than the angels plus food we use to use. Also are tanks are well over stocked. We have about 200 Pea-Dime fry per 55 gallon tank. Each tank has two 40 gallon sponge filters in them. Some of are other tanks with juv\adults in them are sick with pop eye and fuzz after checking there tanks it seems an ammonia spike do to rotting food was the problem ( or at least so I think) From what I can tell after digging for information and using about half my api kit checking 50+ tanks it seems water quality was our main problem. We have 2 UV sterilizers one is in are koi grow up 125 gallon tanking that has been dieing and the other is with are discus. We have always had are fry overstocked (like 50-100 per 55 gallons) but do to tank space we have 200 or so fry per tank. 200 fry in a 10 gallon 200 pea in a 30 gallon 200 dimes in a 55 gallon We always do weekly water changes and have a lot of filtration but at this point maby it is not enough? What do you guys think? hopefully if water quality is the problem/overstocking it can help overs that have the same problem. |
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Post by plecoman on Apr 17, 2012 18:18:58 GMT -6
It sounds like water quality may very well be the main issue. I too have an overstocked tank or two and I really have to stay on top of them.
I would add more filtration. It would definitely help. If you have any HOB filters, I would add one to each 55 gal. tank to work with your two 40 gal. sponge filters. 80 gal. sponge filters would be even better too.
I would also recommend a mid-week water change, since your tanks are so heavily stocked.
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Post by ree123 on Apr 18, 2012 11:53:15 GMT -6
That much stock almost requires H2O changes every day or two or continuous H2O changes.
Also consider genetics. Bent fins can be from ammonia to high in your tanks or from genetics of inline breeding. Might want to consider an outcross once and evaluate results.
If indeed a infection running rampant in your tanks try some "clout" for several days, possibly in combination with "Jungles parasite clear." Or try using some "Quick cure." The formaldehyde in that can kill off many unwanted organisms in a few days.
Your best attack, IMHO, is more water changes, more often, or reducing the number of inhabitants in any given overstocked tank.
Fish poop, pee, and breath in their water world, and the ammonia can rise quickly if overstocked to the limits you reveal.
Unlikely the food unless it is going uneaten and again fowling the water, which more H2O changes will remedy. That is unless your food is super old and moldy thus adding bacteria, fungi, etc. right into your tanks.
Hope this might help a bit.
Keep us posted and we'll keep offering ideas until you remedy your situation.
Do hope to see you all on May 20 too !
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Post by frankandnick on Apr 18, 2012 12:17:57 GMT -6
We switched back to angels plus food and have cleans out the tanks and split up the groups into more tanks. the tanks are still overstocked but only about 100 dimes per 55 gallon now. The melafix seems to be helping, are tanks are starting to go back to normal slowly. I wont ever overstock so badly ever again thats for sure.
Also to my knowledge we will be at the swap unless its really bad weather
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Post by bunnie1978 on Apr 22, 2012 20:35:22 GMT -6
I disagree with the food comments... food CAN go bad. You can get a bad bunch.... I swear by Angelsplus food and every time I've tried to do something else, it just bites me in the *ouch* If you are going to use food, and keep it in your fishroom, make sure it's in an air tight container. If you are having food hit the bottom of your tanks that are that crowded, I would say you are overfeeding to start, or don't have enough scavenger fish to take care of the leftovers. As a general guideline, with angels... I used to overfeed like crazy. Now I try to get enough food in there that a little bit hits the ground, but if there's anything left after 5 minutes, then I've over done it. I've found that overcrowding all by itself can cause problems with angels too. Even if everything else is great, simply spreading out your fish or downsizing will help. If you do have any issues which you suspect to be disease, I encourage you to do the following: 1. Don't try to guess what it is. Really, just don't even bother. It's a parasite 99.2% of the time. 2. Treat for external parasites first. (I like quick-cure or Malachite Green and Formaldehyde) 3. Treat for bacteria second, if necessary. Some might disagree with that advice.  But that's ok. It's also assuming that you do everything to reduce stress as much as possible whether it's from the food, the crowdedness, a bully, whatever. Alot of angel breeders go through a regular preventative disease treatment regime even when their fish seem perfectly healthy. |
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But that's ok. It's also assuming that you do everything to reduce stress as much as possible whether it's from the food, the crowdedness, a bully, whatever.