What should I do?

[mig]

I recently saved a total of 8 Cichlids from a neighbor who was going to do whatever it took to get them off his hands So I took them and put them in an old 55g I had in the attic having no clue what I was getting myself into... So basically the past 3 weeks I have consumed myself in learning everything I can about these, and Ive hit a wall...

So my current stock list is this... M. Greshakei(m), Red Zebra, Yellow Lab, Cobalt, Acei, Crabo, Jewel(what was i thinking) and then a common pleco.

I went into Aquatic Critter the other day and asked for advice, but I felt I was hearing 2 very different opinions.. From what I have read on forums a 3-1 male female ratio should be kept, and to keep it down to 3 species.. but the guy at AC said that I should just add about 10 more mbuna to my tank doesnt matter their sex, and I would be fine.. So im pretty confused on what I should do... Get rid of a few of my fish and then build off the ones I have left, or just add about 10 more not really caring to sex them?

[fishme]

Zach, I'll leave advice on the stock list to folks with more knowledge, although I can say I fear for the safety of the Yellow Lab in that mix. There are some fish in there that are much more aggressive than the Labs. One thing I will advise is that you pay close attention to the substrate of any mbuna tank. They like and in some cases, need, lots of hiding places in order to feel secure or to literally escape from a bully. Most African tanks have lots of rocks of various sizes to provide caves and to break up the sight lines of the tank. How do you have your tank set up?

The guys at the Critter might not be just trying to sell you more fish. Many people overcrowd African tanks with the idea that the aggression becomes more spread out. Be aware, though, that more fish means more work in keeping the tank clean and the water in good shape. I don't mind this. I like to clean my tanks once a week whether they really need it or not, but I might be a little weird.

[mig]

Yeah.. And I know the guy at AC wasn't trying to just sell me a ton of fish, I guess the question I have about adding 10 fish is does the sexing matter? What if- I add more Yellow labs will that help with the bullying of them? I don't mind cleaning it at all, everyday when I come home I am always trying to find something to do to my tank..

I will take some pictures of my tank, and post them, I feel like I have a good set-up as far as hiding goes..

[fishme]

Great. That would help. There are others here with more knowledge than me about this stocking stuff, so I will bow to them on that. If you are not noticing any real aggression problems right now, there's no urgent need to do anything. You can take your time and be sure to get it right. How big are the current residents? Keep in mind some of these guys could grow up to six or seven inches. There are lots of opinions about what constitutes "overcrowding" a tank. Some will probably say eight full grown cichlids in a 55 gallon will already be overcrowded. Again, if none of the fish are being bothered a lot right now, don't rush it. There will be people who can help you with the stocking. I can tell you the Red Zebra, the Cobalt, the Crabro and the Jewel are all potential trouble makers, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Also, before you do any stocking, you might want to check with Jon, the guy who runs this site. He has a gorgeous selection of Africans, and they're all top-notch quality.

[angel]

I had red zebra, kenyi and jewel all in with my mbunas and the one that gave the yellow lab the most grief was the jewel when he was ready to breed. I had to remove him from the tank. My suggestion, if you can do it, is get a second tank. Put the aggressives in it and the peaceful(sorta) guys stay where they are. Or vice versa. Overcrowding is supposed to work, too, but the reasoning for that is that there are so many fish that the aggressor can't really single out the one he was being aggressive with. Now if you're wanting to breed, I wouldn't be sure overcrowding the tank would be a great thing. Less places to stake out for territory, less room for mama to hide and feel comfortable, less places for fry to be safe if they make it to the point they come out of the mouth. These fears have kept me from overcrowding. But sex shouldn't matter in the overcrowding theory in that there are so many that they can't fight as easily. And a few here keep a tank of all males--and it works.

[mig]

This is my set up for now-- any criticism would be greatly appreciated. I need to find a new home for my jewel.. I don't have another tank for it.

[fishme]

Very nice looking tank, Zach. You did a great job setting it up. Since they're all very small, I think you have plenty of time to figure the right way to go, again as long as none of them are being bothered a lot right now. I'm sure when folks start getting off work today, there will be others weighing in on the right direction. I do know from experience the Acei and the Yellow Labs make great tank mates. Did you buy those pretty rocks or find them somewhere?

[angel]

Here's an option: keep the aggressives and place the lab and the acei elsewhere. And if you did that I'd even be interested in them.

[mig]

Yeah, luckily im off work today and decided to dedicate it to my fish.. I bought the squares of sandstone for like .50 at home depot, and the Limestone i went to a sub-divison that they are doing some blasting at, and picked them right off the rock walls. and the bottom is just play sand.. so in total i paid about 5 for all of it..I really wanted holey rock or drift wood, I cant justify paying that much money.

Angel-- I would be willing to discus that with you further..

[jon carman]

I think with proper rock work and just watching you should be fine with what you have. I would add a lot more rock and stack it in a way where there are plenty of caves. It looks great. You could add about 4-5 more, but it is optional. I would leave it alone as long as the pecking order is fine. If something happens and you need to get rid of a couple or trade, there are plenty of people on here willing to help. Glad to have you on the forum and if you need anything just PM a moderator or myself and we will help the best we can.

[mig]

Yeah, well getting more rock work is just a 2 min drive away.. so I will do that for sure... I would like to add more fish and maybe a few catfish.. So your saying just 4-5 more is the most I should go?

Also the M. Greshakei is tormenting the others pretty bad he does nothing but chase the others and bite at them..

[jon carman]

What type of filtration do you have? If you have great filtration and water movement you can do way more. If you had a sump it could do even more. 4-5 is low end, with good filtration it could be 15.

[mig]

I have an emperor 400 right now, and a eheim 2213 on its way

[jon carman]

That will be plenty.

[tomtom]

and with the more you have the less theyll prob fight,