Water Buffers

[mig]

The pH in my tank is running a little lower than I would like it to.. What can I use to buffer my water to naturally raise the pH.. I was thinking maybe some crushed coral and putting some in my canister and on the bottom of my HOB? any other suggestions or something that might work better?

[sirknight]

raise your tank pH from what to what?

also what is the PH, alk and hardness of your tap water after 24 hours of aeration?

The reason for the questions is you may just need to increase your water changes .

Joe

[jon carman]

Unless it is really low I would leave it alone. Baking soda and epsom salt help along with the crushed coral and sea shells, but they can take a steady lower pH better than one that fluctuates.

[mig]

right now im doing 25-30% water changes every other week.. my pH is at 7.6 but thats as low as my test goes so it could be lower... DH is 5 or 4 Its hard to tell, KH is 8-9 again hard to tell exactly from what I have read those are where they are supposed to be at. Right?

I might be thinking into all of this just a little too much but I feel pH would be better at like the high 7 to low 8 range.. But keep in mind that I know very little about the buffer and DH-KH stuff, I am just going off what I have read.. and do the tests not really knowing much about it other than my numbers are within the numbers I see are good for mbuna.

I do add epsom salt when I do water changes

[jon carman]

I would take a sample to the Critter if you are worried, but most africans are fine in neutral water as long as they are not wild. I keep my water about 7.8, and even my wild caught fish are fine. With them I start out high if that is how they were kept and over a series of water changes I lower it back to my normal ph.

[mig]

Well... I spent a lot of time today just doing some reading on mbuna trying to understand everything as much as I can... I came across a few different opinions on what was right and wrong-- good vs bad, not finding a solid answer (found a lot but not 1 consensus) and I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but it seems a lot sites have the EXACT (like they copied and paste) information other sites do.

I just tested my water, because last time I tested it it was the day of the water change. and my readings as of right now are;
pH-7.8
Nitrite-0ppm
Ammonia-0ppm
Nitrate- somewhere in the 20-40 range

I'm not so worried anymore all the fish seem to be doing fine so im just going to leave it be for now unless i see some changes happen. Im just going to do weekly water tests for a while to make sure.

[jon carman]

If all is well the best thing to do is leave alone. There is no exact answer on any of this, just what works and what doesn't. What doesn't work is fluctuation, so if you can add the exact amount all the time to keep everything the same, it could be better. The problem is it is 100x the work and if you mess up once you have a lot of dead fish. Others will chime in and give there opinion, and it might be different than mine, but you have to take all the info for yourself and make the best decision for you. Good luck and if you have any more ? don't hesitate to post.

[titansfever83]

Buffers do not work unless your water is run through a RO setup. If you add buffers to your tap water, it will eventually revert back to your normal water conditions in a matter of time. Which will cause stress due to fluctuations in PH.

90% of my fish are SA cichlids and are found in the wild at much lower PH and GH levels. Most fish can withstand higher or lower PH levels than where they are originally found, just as long as everything else is in check and you don't have major PH fluctuations with your tap water.

[mig]

I agree Jon, always seems that when you start messing around with things too much,the margin for error goes up..

Titansfever83- I am for sure not going to be adding any chemicals into my water, even when doing changes. I was thinking more along the lines of crushed coral in the filters or limestone.. something that is a constant in the tank..

I do have a lot more questions which I will be posting soon. Thanks for the replies I am feeling 10x better about leaving what I have for now.

[sirknight]

I would not worry about a PH of 7.6, unless your tap water is higher. If it is, then you are stressing your fish with every water change. You need to test both to see what you are working with before you start making changes. Test kits are not that expensive and they do have a shelf life. If your test kits are old they will need to be replaced to get actuate readings. If you PH test kit only goes down to 7.6 get another that gives lower readings to see what it really is (don't just guess).

Crushed coral does not dissolve at high PH enough to raise the tanks PH IMO . Just to give you a quick example will use aggregate based product in our calcium reactors to rise the calcium levels in reef tanks. In order to melt it we add CO2 to lower the PH in the reactor to dissolve the media (6.0 to 5.5) in saltwater. The normal salt water PH is 8.0 to 8.4.

There are four major elements that effect PH, the tanks alkalinity, the tanks calcium, the tanks magnesium and O2. All four of these have to be in balance or your PH will either be very high or very low.

I will not go into any more detail here as to how to balance as there is a formula to use to keep them balanced. If they are balanced your PH will be constance.

The products needed to raise alkalinity is baking soda. To raise magnesium is Epsom salt. To raise calcium you can use calcium chloride. To raise O2 you need to increase aeration

I would be more concerned about Nitrates in the 20 to 40 range. IMO it should be 5 or lower. This can easily be lowered by increasing the amount of your water changes. You may need to do water changes weekly and may need to change more water with each change. high waste also effects PH.

Joe

[mig]

Im using an API kit less than 2 months old.. with the test there is a high risk of error, just by adding 1 extra drop of something or not letting it wait long enough, and I believe that is what happened in my case.

I feel my understanding of how pH works with balancing and everything is very good.. with the alkalinity calcium and magnesium.. ( I always knew my chemistry degree would be useful at some point in my life 8)

The reason why my nitrates are that high is because I just added 6 new fish and was probably feeding just a bit too much. Once I do a water change this week I expect they will drop a good amount.

Im not looking for a buffer to so much raise my pH im more looking for something that will help keep my water at a more steady pH. The water in my house I am almost convinced changes pH and alkanlinity on a regular basis. I think what I need is just something that will help moderate the pH not necessarily raise or lower it, I was just wondering if there was anything recommended to do that?

[nebelhund]

In my experience, only about a year with cichlids, I've had really good luck with sand and crushed coral. I have two tanks with that substrate and 1 without and the 2 with the coral have a higher ph which the cichlids seem to do very well with.

[mig]

It seems as though there are many different opinions, and what I am slowing learning that like with this and most all other cichlid topics there is a wide range of methods people use and each has its own benefits and downs...

I am interested to hear what other methods people use or have heard of and maybe some dos and don'ts when it comes to adding certian material into an aquarium to help maintain and buffer pH I.E crushed coral, holey rock ect..ect..

[jon carman]

You have about nailed them all. (limestone, shells, coral)

[ricoll]

I just use the off the shelf cichlid buffer mix. It seems to work fine.

Rico