Angel Problems Continue

[angel]

Ok so we all know I lost nearly all of the angels in my 55 gallon and with just 3 left, moved them to a 20 and stripped down the 55 for a thorough cleaning. During the swap I lost several of their fry from another 20 gallon but the rest were eating fine. Thought I starved them to death. So today I lost two more in that tank. I've now moved THEM to the tank I moved the other three to and tested the water in this tank. Other than the nitrates are high--like between 40 and 80--there is nothing else wrong with the water. This is two tanks of angels now, and I put extra stress coat in! What else could it be? I now have a tank of new special angels and I do NOT want this happening to them.

[jon carman]

This is a river11 question

[angel]

I do believe I know why the nitrates are up on this tank. It's got a Whisper filter and those cartridges are crap! I am putting in the air system this week so I didn't buy additional filters for this month's change, which was last week. I just rinsed it out a little. Difficult to do with those. I've got a plant in there which is supposed to help absorb the nitrates so I wasn't entirely worried about them. TIL now!

[jgentry]

I think you already have found the problem. 40-80 nitrates seems very high to me for angelfish. I don't let any of my tanks get above 20. Angelfish are more sensitive to these kind of things much like tank bred discus. If river11's water was below 10 nitrates which I suspect it was then the angels could definately die off from the large change in nitrates compared to what they were in.

South american amazon basin fish are much more sensitive to nitrates, hard water, parasites, ETC.

I'm sure river11 can give a much more detailed response and can probably add a lot more to what I've said or correct anything that I said that does not pertain to angels. Just for reference I try to keep my discus tank below 5 nitrates.

[angel]

I had suspected angelfish might be more sensitive. But until recently hadn't had trouble. Both tanks that had trouble have HOB filters made by whisper. The good thing is, the nitrates are 0 in the tank I have the new angels in. And when the air system goes in I'll feel better about it. The sponges are easy to rinse out and keep in check. Whisper filters are a pain. The ones I lost were my own fry.

[jgentry]

Sept 22, 2009 17:27:22 GMT -6 angel said:

I do believe I know why the nitrates are up on this tank. It's got a Whisper filter and those cartridges are crap! I am putting in the air system this week so I didn't buy additional filters for this month's change, which was last week. I just rinsed it out a little. Difficult to do with those. I've got a plant in there which is supposed to help absorb the nitrates so I wasn't entirely worried about them. TIL now!

Normal filters will not remove nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite are converted to nitrate and the only way to remove them are do water changes. So you either have something in your tank that is making the nitrates, dead fish, lots of poop, etc or you are feeding to much or not doing enough water changes on that one tank. Most likely it is over feeding. THat is the only time I run into issues with nitrate spikes is when I get a little too happy with the bag of pellets .

[angel]

That could be too. I've been busy and it's easy to mindlessly throw food. Will be MUCH more careful about that and see if it fixes things.

[angel]

Water changes once a week. I would like to know if anyone saw too much poop in my tanks as I think I get them clean but my eyes are so bad! I had read that dirty filters will cause nitrate spikes too as well as other cycling things so I try to keep them clean. Aquaclears are so much easier then you don't lose any bacteria changing a cartridge. And I mentioned this to Jon, but doing water changes recently I smell two things in my water. Not just slight chlorine--it smells like a pool. And sulphur smell.

[sirknight]

When you say you rinsed it I hope you didn't use tap water, if you did you killed all of the bacteria. If so you could be going through mini cycles which would cause high nitrates.

Also way back when, when I was breeding angel fish I was doing at least two 50 % water changes a week and feeding a lot of different foods, but this was before all these test kits, I learned this from a breeder that had thousands of angels. He stated keep the water clean, feed them, clean the tank and keep the tank empty of every thing except a filter. It worked for me.

Just something you may have missed.

Joe

[sirknight]

Also sorry I missed the swap, but I am feeling much better now. maybe next time.



Joe

[angel]

I used tank water to rinse the filter. Barely anything came out. It should have had more dirt in it so I think it was an ineffective effort.
I could try an extra water change a week it can't hurt! I've missed something alright--the other tank went months and months before having any issues.
Are they ok with ph of 7.0? That's what I've got out of the tap.

[angel]

Good to hear you're feeling better. How about Marie?

[jody]

Thanks for the angelfish, they are doing great now. I got them to eat, and they are swimming around great. Thanks a lot again.

[jgentry]

A ph of 7 is fine for tank bred strains. I really prefer canister filters on tanks with more delicate fish. Maybe a small canister and a sponge. I think the main thing is for the time being you need to really up the water changes on that tank. Test your water every day on that tank and when the nitrates start getting much above 5 do a 50% water change. Once you add more filtration you will get in a routine that can keep your angels healthy and growing like weeds.

[angel]

I'm glad they're doing great. I lost more today so it wasn't that they were hungry it's gotta be the things JD was saying. The better filtrations's gonna help but getting ready to do another water change now and keep things in check. Keep up on yours, too. They do seem way more sensitive than the other fish I've been keeping.