Pressurized CO2

[spoot]

So, it's that time of the month where I start considering adding CO2 to my 55 to enhance the growth of my plants. Let me get this out front, my plants are in no way suffering, except maybe my roseafolia. I have beautiful reds on my ludwiga natans, and my floating pennywort is exploding to the point I'm thinking it might be more trouble than what it's worth. I just want "more". I have a dual T5 HO light system, dose with Flourish Comprehensive 2x a week, and my substrate is a 75/25 mix of aquarium gravel and flourite. The only thing I think that leaves me missing on the 3 legged stool of plant growth (light, nutrients, carbon) is CO2. I'm just leery of setting one up.

I've had my jaw dropped at CO2 tanks before. I have also saw the belly up results of carbon poisoning. So if I jump into this, I want to make sure I do it right.

I guess equpiment is the first place to start. I might can get a hookup on aa discharged fire extinguisher. I know a guy who recycles them. After that, whagt all else will I need to purchase? Any reccomendations as to where to get it? I know a regulator, bubble counter, needle valve, tubing, and a diffuser should be about it. Where do I look for this stuff, and am I missing anything? How much should I be ready to invest excluding tank, provided I can find a sufficient one from the guy I know?

Or, should I totally scrap this idea and try dosing with Flourisg Excel first?

[bunnie1978]

You could have good results with Excel, but it's expensive over time. Another relatively cheap option would be DIY CO2, start to finish for a 55g might be upwards of $20. That would be a good trial. But be aware of the downfalls.... inconsistant levels of CO2 create higher likelihood of algae problems.

With the level of plants you have now, I think you'll be very happy with the results and with the new options CO2 adds up for you.

I got my first tank from a fire extinguisher place with the standard valve for $25. I thought that was awesome. I have a 10lb tank on my 75g, I've had it probably 6 months and I've never had to refill it. It costs about $12 for the refill at Volunteer Welding in Nashville. I actually have 900 psi still!!

After the tank, you'll need a regulator. I got one of mine from www.greenleafaquariums.com and I would recommend them to anyone!! They start at $186 I think. Their regulator has an adjustable working pressure gauge, needle valve, and bubble counter already built on it. Then you need brass check valve tubing and diffuser. I think my initial order was just over $200.

In my 75g I have the tubing stuck into the intake tube for my Magnum 350 canister filter. The motor is on the bottom, so there is no danger from gas build-up, which I've never seen anyways. I have 100% disolution.

In my 29g I have a Hagan mini-elite filter. Here is a thread about it:
www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/44053-tiny-super-efficient-co2-reactor.html
It's awesome.

There are other options of course. My 29g regulator is a cheap Azoo one. I DO NOT like it. It's working, but impossible to adjust the bubble rate with precision!

Here's the thing I didn't think of - fertilizing. I WAS using Flourish Comp and Iron, and leaf Zone before I added CO2. Here is what my tank looked like back then:


You need to prepare for a high tech fertilizing regimine before you go high tech for immediate results.
I use EI, but modified a little. I've been writing out what I do in this thread:
musiccitycichlids.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=intro&action=display&thread=1657

As far as keeping your CO2 levels safe for your fish, there are things you can get to monitor your levels, like a drop checker. You can also get a PH monitoring device that has a probe thatyou stick into your water. It reads your PH and turns on or off the CO2 based on what your target is. That is a great option, but upwards of $90. I don't do any of these things, though. I watch my fish. I found with my stocking level that I still have to have airation to bleed out the CO2 overnight as well.

[spoot]

My parameters at the moment are

7.6ph
8kh
161.1gh

These were obtained about 48 hrs after dosing 3mil of Flourish Comp, and 72 hours after water change.

What do you think adding CO2 will affect? Is my hardness enough to stay fairly stable? The regulator I've been checking is one of the Milwaukee ones, MA957 I think the link in the other thread is the same one. It looks like it has pretty much everything except a check, diffusor and hosing, or am I missing something?

Also, I'm wondering if my floating pennywort is sponging my ferts. It and my ludwiga are growing nicely, but my anubias nana, java ferns, roseafolia, and even my java moss have all stalled. The fronds were coming off of my cabomba thanks to my rainbows picking at it, so I removed it. Tired of scooping those fronds up daily.

My roseafolia is kind of distressing. The stems keep melting down to a couple of fibers then breaking. I trim it to a healthy stem but the same thing happens after a week or so. It use to be really bright and had buds all between the leaves, but has since went downhill fast. I can't figure out what has changed other than the addition of my pennywort. That is kind of when everything slowed down. It's rapid growth coupled with the problems with my anubias, javas, and roseafolia has led me to think it may be to blame.

[bunnie1978]

When you add CO2 you will see your PH drop. This is nothing to worry about unless it get's too low, but you'll notice fish gasping for air way before the PH gets too low for normal tropicals. Your hardness parameters are fine, as long as your fish are happy, and when your fish can enjoy the pleasure of watching your plants creating oxygen they'll be happy!!

There are alot of things that can be happening with the rosefolia. With your water parameters, I would haxard a guess that you either have too hard of water for it, it doesn't like excel (some plants just don't) or possibly your ferts are out of balance.

I am guessing of course. If you tell me which rosefolia it is, I might be able to better diagnose.

The Milwalki looks good. It has the same valve as the Azoo that I have. It's a great price, but the warranty is useless. Just be prepared that if something causes it to stop working, you'll be replacing it.

You will still need a brass check valve, diffuser (the ceramic disc types are pretty but wasteful) and any monitoring device you opt for. OH, and a timer!!!

[spoot]

Sorry, the specific plant in question is Alternanthera reineckii - ''roseafolia''. I tried to remember the spelling of it earlier but was too lazy to look it up and just went with the common name.

I haven't started anything with Excel yet. Still seeing if I want to get some of it, or go with CO2.

Check Valve - Check, will get a brass one.

Diffuser - Thinking I may run mine similar to yours. I have a Mag350 as well. Just put the output hose in the intake I'm guessing?

Monitoring Device - What are we talking about exactly? Like a drop checker?

Timer - It comes with a solenoid, and I have my lights on a timer that has 2 outputs. Would I just plug the Solenoid in there? That way my lights and CO2 would be on the same on/off schedule.

Another subject, I hate PH drip tests. There has got to be an easier way right? I can't stand sitting there going "Well it's kinda this color... but kinda this color too...". Maybe not the $90 "OMG PH Drop!" Turner Offer thingie, but still there has to be a better way.

Also... Dry Ferts. I looked at the aquarium fertilizer page you linked in the other thread. I would probably go with a basic regimen of

KNO3
KH2PO4
K2SO4
CSM+B

I think my water is hard enough to skip out on a GH booster, and I'm thinking with my Flourite/Gravel mix I can probably forgo Iron, or just get some root tabs if needed. Again, this is just my shooting from the hip research I've done on and off today, so feel free to swat my knuckles with a ruler if I'm wrong.

Other options I have considered for the regulator are a Rex Grigg and the Aquarium Plants Electronic Co2 Regulator. Not to knock Rex, but his whole BS attitude on his site is what's turning me away. Makes it seem like if I received the reg and it was busted all to hell, he would just shrug and go on with life. And, unless I'm missing it somewhere, I don't see a warranty at all. Just a lot of hot air about how he makes the best damn regulator, with little to nothing to back it up. The thing he does have going for him though, is since he pretty much hand builds all of them, I'm pretty sure he can support them to no end. Also, placing an order for his regulator, and a combo pack of ferts would almost be too easy. Paypal payment though is kinda *groan*. Also, seems like there would be a pretty big delay in placing the order and having it shipped, and once again, he doesn't really care.

The other one is fully electronic. No needle valves or any of that. Seems like an interesting concept, but also has kind of a "new tech gizmo" edge. If it's everything they've hyped it up to be though it would be the bee's knees. No counting bubbles, no fiddling with this and that. No burnt out solenoids... you get the idea. Also, hard to beat a 3 year warranty.

I hadn't looked at the ones you mentioned, I have now. Those seem pretty spiffy as well. The price is in line with the one above. It would also seem that you've had a really good experience with them.

Looks like a reg is going to be around $100 to $200 after shipping. I guess a lot of it depends on what I wind up getting my CO2 bottle for. We'll see. If I can get one on the cheap, I can probably weasel the wife into letting me splurge a little on my regulator.

[bunnie1978]

I just got some of that rosefolia. It's doing well in my high light, tap water, EI dosing tank right now. No CO2 on it. It'sin full light. I haven't had it long though. It's possible we're still in the honeymoon stage.

For the Mag, I drilled a hole in the top flat part of the strainer, and stuck the tube in. That way, if I turn off the mag, or the flow is slowed down due to clogging or whatever, the CO2 doesn't make it inside. It is kinda pain sometimes because I can't take the strainer to the sink to clean it without taking out the CO2.

Skip the drip tests and get a PH monitor. That controls your CO2, and you'll never have to test again.

The GLA regulator has been great. The support is unbeatable. Call Orlando. You'll understand why within minutes. I've spent HOURS on the phone with him getting everything ordered, working out my fert plan, getting it hooked up and solving problems. He builds each one himself. He can explain to you the difference between his and the Milwalki. I knows there is a HUGE price difference though.

[daveoftn]

Greenleaf Aquarium stuff is top-notch, but Rex Grigg uses a lot of the same components for cheaper. Plus, Rex is very active in the aquarium community and answers emails with problems/requests for advice very promptly. For his site, he was ex-military and tries using military humor to be funny. He's very nice/polite in forums and email correspondance though. Even if you don't use his regulator, his DIY reactor rocks if you use a canister filter.

I personally went with the milwaukee regulator, but you definitely need to replace the needle valve with a fabco nv55 ($30).

If you do decide to go DIY Co2, the biggest trick is to use wine yeast. It lasts a LOT longer. From my research on alcohol tolerance and forum posts, Lalvin K1V wine yeast is the best. Also be sure to use a recipe that incorporates either jello or protein powder. Going this route doubles and sometimes even triples how long it lasts. Also make sure to recycle the sludge so you can re-use the yeast.

[jokerls240]

If you haven't found a CO2 tank yet, check eBay. I'm bidding on a 5lb from a beverage company for about $45, but should have selected Buy It Now for $49.99 + shipping! These are brand new, aluminum tanks. The seller even lists the date of manufacture (April 2010 for the one I'm bidding on). Getting a new tank means that a hydrostatic pressure test will not be needed for another 5 years.

Then I stumbled on a steal for a used GLA regulator for under $100 shipped. It's being shipped right now. All I lack now is a diffuser, CO2 tubing, and pH controller - that will be a Milwaukee SMS122. When I'm ready to put down that much cash, eBay will be my first stop.

[bunnie1978]

@ joker- that's way too much!!!

You can get a used fire extinguisher for alot cheaper (some places will give it to you free,I paid $25 for one) and get it filled with CO2 for about $10.

[spoot]

I've actually put my Co2 on a bit of a hold. I found out my LFS was having a bit of a tank sale, and I got a new 75G with Glass tops for $120+TAX. So, I'm investing the Co2 fund into getting the tank, and building the stand. All my stock will be moved from my 55 to the new 75, with a few additions.

After that is completed I'll start working on my Co2.

[bunnie1978]

Uh oh!! Multiple tank syndrome strikes again!

[spoot]

Ya, like I said... it always goes down like this. =P

Oh well, I reeaaaaalllly wanted a 75 due to the better aquascaping possibilities with the width.

[jokerls240]

May 19, 2010 5:05:40 GMT -6 bunnie1978 said:

@ joker- that's way too much!!!

You can get a used fire extinguisher for alot cheaper (some places will give it to you free,I paid $25 for one) and get it filled with CO2 for about $10.

Did you have to get the tank hydrotested? From my days as a volunteer firefighter, I remember that we had to get all of our pressurized gas tanks tested every 2 or 3 years for steel ones and every 5 on aluminum.

There is a risk of critical failure, and possible explosion, involved if this testing isn't kept on schedule.

I'm just a little more willing to pay a bit more for a sure thing.

Not knocking your choice. This is just my way of doing things.