|
|
Post by jon carman on Aug 16, 2011 0:03:42 GMT -6
Tina, minor concerns where talked about, and adjustments where made to by-laws that were somewhat in place. But 99% of the meeting was talking about the swap. Jess will write up meeting minutes of what was talked about. We will also publish by-laws on the website.
I see where you are coming from, but I assure you it was only planning for future events and how to improve. Rick can expand further if he wishes
The by-laws are set up as a living document the way I interpreted it. If we messed up, there will be ways to bring changes by the next meet. We aren't perfect, and what we came up with tonight isn't perfect, it is our best attempt to get things moving. If we messed up, we can fix it.
David was present and he is a witness to what occurred. I don't thing anything but good came from the meeting.
|
|
|
|
Post by mruble on Aug 16, 2011 5:50:58 GMT -6
I agree with Jon - it was a very productive meeting. The minutes will also be posted for all members to see. Many thanks to David Lewis for sitting thru the meeting as an observer. Very good to see the other club officers and to accomplish "the business"!
|
|
angel
FORUM BEGINNER
My Husband's A Birdbrain
Posts: 40
|
Post by angel on Aug 16, 2011 6:51:48 GMT -6
The members wouldn't know what by laws need changed as they dont even know what by laws there are and what's against them. Two years and still no further ahead on that. I will take a hit for not making them be somewhere last year when VP, but it's hard for us regulars to know if the officers are even saying dues go up to $50, or no one can be part of the club without a minimum of 5 kinds of cichlids, or something. Know what I mean? Closed decisions about closed documents that affect everyone is not democratic. So what can we do to fix that?
|
|
|
|
Post by jon carman on Aug 16, 2011 8:44:52 GMT -6
point taken, from what i remember most bylaws put in place were to insure all members have a say. after 2 years officers needed a chance to finally put heads together and set some goals. I promise that our focus was on making it better.
jess should have documents of last nights discussion and i will post. Rick can answer on operatioal proceedure from here on out. Sorry that it came across that way, I am sure your concerns will be taken in to account.
|
|
|
|
Post by davidtcb1 on Aug 16, 2011 10:07:11 GMT -6
After witnessing this meeting, I can assure everyone that the intentions were positive and the outcome will be likewise. The majority of what was discussed was how and where to get the club's structure and by-laws out in the open and posted for all to see, so that they are clear and available going forward. It's hard to break a law when there haven't been any established or made public, so this meeting was a launching pad for that so that everyone can know - and these types of miscommunications can therefore be avoided in the future. Getting something like this rolling is the hardest part of building a club like this, but good things are being done to make all members in good standing feel welcome and an equal part of the whole (which was something else that was conveyed last night.) Everything will soon be posted on the MCAA website as well as this forum so that all current members, potential members, forum participants and John Q Public can see them. It will certainly make the club more viable in the fish community and give more reason for fish enthusiasts currently active (and those who haven't even discovered us yet) to want to be part of something that can be a great thing for years to come.
The rest of the meeting consisted primarily of discussing the upcoming fall swap and the different/new aspects that should make it our best yet. Should be a great time and you won't want to miss it!
|
|
|
|
Post by ree123 on Aug 16, 2011 15:26:23 GMT -6
Hello Tina, and every one else on the forum.
Last night was a huge success for your officers and your club as a whole !
We had 4 of the 5 members present and the missing member was with us by phone.
We had 1 general member to attend also.
We went over many many items and ideals for the improvement of your club for the immediate future and for the long term future.
Jess, your club Secretary is preparing a draft of minutes for all to read, which will be published soon.
We also are going to be publishing the By-Laws, Constitution, and Amendments to these two documents very soon for your reading pleasure and reference.
These are all items necessary for our club to continue into the future for many years to come,under whomever the leadership falls as we continue to grow.
On the specific note Tina referenced to re: democracy I would like to take just a moment to explain..............................
When this club began, it was not a club. It was Tina and Jon, and a few other folks who started talking via I.N. and decided maybe a group should form that could be given a name and have some policies to follow, and eventually the word "club" came into the conversation.
(Remember there were just a handful of folks then.) They all agreed that each of them had a voice and a vote on everything.
Well, we, as a forum and as a club, have continued to grow and hopefully will continue to do so for many, many years to come ! As we do, and as the original By-Laws which were written by Tina and others elude to, there must be officers who will vote and amend and lead the club into the future. These members who hold these offices are like your Senators and Congressmen who represent you. There are times that polls or ideas can change things from the entire membership, and there is a process to do that also, spelled out in the same documents.
All members can be heard, either via the forum here or @ board meetings under the proper process, and all consideration or requests can be discussed and voted upon by your officers.
But you must remember, as we grow, and more and more members are among us, that everyone cannot speak and be heard all the time or it would be ciaos.
I hope this answers the question of democracy for all and I want you to look forward to several documents coming soon, and to what we hope and have planned to be the best swap/meet to date coming in October ! There was a lot of time spent last night discussing just that, and we are sure you will be pleased !
I have left out some details as our minutes will explain much of the details when published, soon.
We will talk further as the needs arise.
Any of you can feel free to ask any questions of your officers that you like. I only speak for myself, but feel all officers would agree, we would be happy to go over any questions you have.
Remember, we are your officers, and not only here for you, but are all for you and the improvement and continued enjoyment of our hobby thru this club we call MCAA.
Respectively,
Rick Easterly
MCAA President
aka ree123
|
|
angel
FORUM BEGINNER
My Husband's A Birdbrain
Posts: 40
|
Post by angel on Aug 16, 2011 16:31:06 GMT -6
Respectfully, Rick, we WERE a club last year, and the by-laws were written according to what we needed to do to be a part of the larger organizations that you wanted to be a part of. The bylaws were modified from a well-established club, and Mark was the one who gave me the model to do it from. We as officers then, remember I WAS an officer, accepted them as our beginning documents and this got us into the ACA the Freshwater something I cant remember but it was one YOU turned me in the direction of, and I forget what else. I worked hard to get this done for YOU, and you were a member but its what you wanted so its what we did as officers. Now I've chosen to be a member and you tell me the bylaws were changed last night and we'll get to see them already changed, and this is appropriate protocol but it is not. If you had read them first, you'd see this line:
Amendments
Proposed amendments to the By-laws will be submitted in writing to the Board of Directors, signed by three (3) active members. The board will investigate and make their recommendations at the next general meeting. Voting will proceed at said meeting with a simple majority of eligible members present and voting required for passage.
and this:
ARTICLE 12
Amendments
Any proposed amendments to this constitution must be submitted in writing to any elected officer. Such proposed amendments must be signed by three (3) active members of MCAA before being submitted. They will be referred to the Board of Directors for investigation and recommendation. Proposed amendments will then be published within sixty (60) days and will be read and voted upon at the next regular meeting after publication. They shall become a part of this Constitution only if approved by a two thirds (2/3) majority of the members present and voting at said meeting.
ARTICLE 13
Parliamentary Authority
All MCAA business shall be conducted under rules of simple democracy. Protested business will not become binding until ruled upon by the acting Sergeant-at-arms.
So where, then, is the authority to change the bylaws without a simple democracy vote? A simple democracy, by the way, is one vote per member, or as you say, member in good standing--although all members are indeed in good standing as they are members.
Now, congress and senate do like to make their own decisions, but they are violating our constitution in doing so, as they are to be our representatives and vote our way no matter what their personal feelings are. Are we to become another failed political body? I don't want that.
So all proposed changes will need to be presented for general populus vote as stated in the original founding documents, or they are in contrast to what this club was to be.
I have to say this at this point, I'm disappointed. When we had year one, you were so happy to have a club in our area at last to represent the fishkeepers here and do what they want. Then for like 6 months you didn't even post. Following George's departure, Mark asked you to be president and all of a sudden you want to change everything without asking what we members think. Where did my friend Rick, the down to earth guy who would listen to anyone go? I want him back.
I don't like to say all this in front of the others but I do want it out in the open what I had to say, and I do want others to know what their choices are. We don't have to just accept whatever our officers change as law. We were going to be a group that was well represented, and had a say in everything. I'm quite disenchanted. Heartbroken more like it.
A Plain Old Member, but in Good Standing,
Tina
|
|
|
|
Post by jon carman on Aug 17, 2011 16:20:56 GMT -6
I will address tina's concerns and if need be, Mark or JD can add if they even want to waste their time.
We were all officers as well when this first unpublished constitution was getting prepared. We basically cut and pasted 99.9% of it because we just needed something to get a club bank account. It was in no way a binding document that was meant to be cited.
I like tina as a friend, and am sad to see her go, but she is completely off base, and she hasn't seen the new constitution.
We don't even have a sergeant-at-arms. We met a couple of times to discuss changes but never did anything, and even then it was 2 or 3 of us max. So she is citing a document for another club.
Anyway, all we did was tailor some guidelines to be specific for us and not be something another club did that we copied.
She had an opportunity to get bylaws done while she was an officer but didn't have time. She was asked to still be an officer but didn't want to. She was invited to come on Monday and give her 2 cents but didn't. So I don't know what more I can say.
If Mark or JD remember anything differently please add, but I consider this a dead issue.
R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
Post by mruble on Aug 17, 2011 18:45:07 GMT -6
My two cents is this:
As I stated at the meeting two days ago - if the Constitution/By-laws is not posted for all members to see, then we do not have a Constitution/By-laws! I do not recall any member ever asking what the rules are concerning the governing of this club. We are now at the point where we are going to publish the club Constitution/By-laws for all to see, not just members but everyone who may one day want to be a member. My goal from day one has been survival of the club. After the resignation of the previous president, club survival was not looking possible. When Rick Easterly volunteered to take over as the interim MCAA President, we were presented a chance for "club survival". Rick came in with ideas to move the club forward. He has worked hard to recruit new members, gain sponsors, and everything else associated with leading a club. As the President he gets to point the club in a direction. It is the job of the other officers to support his tenure and to also keep his "pointing" in check. We have experienced some hard times with the Constitution/By-laws, but have guidelines that we believe are on the mark for our club at this point in time. If we have missed "the mark", feedback will let us know and changes are always a reality. This is not Rick Easterly's Constitution/By-laws, this is what the entire board came up with. If any members who have read previous posts within this thread believe that Rick Easterly has attempted to "weaken" our club, you are what I like to call "WRONG". All members can be certain that the club officers are working hard to make MCAA better.
|
|
|
|
Post by jon carman on Aug 17, 2011 21:12:18 GMT -6
well said
|
|
|
|
Post by ree123 on Aug 18, 2011 3:35:36 GMT -6
Thank you for recognizing all the hours spent to increase enjoyment in our club for everyone.
I don't want to pat myself on the back, but will say I have spent and continue to spend many, many hours above and beyond the forum/computer time, working on ideas and plans for our club to grow and continue ionto the future. All of your officers and board members have !
A TN Aquatic fish club had been a childhood dream for me, and I am doing all I know possible to keep the dream alive and flourishing well beyond my tenure.
Tina did raise legit question, and general members have not been left out with no voice, but a procedure is taking shape and being put into place, to allow your elected officers to make some decisions, while polling or asking for input and assistance from all members, in good standing, on many other issues.
If we continue as an entire group to allow everyone to make every decision, no matter its size or complexity, as I had already eluded to, we would find caious, and no club business would ever be done and no movement into the future would ever take place.
Idleness would kill the club for sure, so I encourage all of you to embrace changes, all of which we hope will continue the growth into the future for the MCAA, and provide a solid base for the clubs future, for many other future members, who will continue to benefit and enjoy our wonderful hobby, that you and I so dearly love.
If patience is a virtue, you all just need to be patient and see what continues. We are spending many, many hours as a board, planning for our best swap/meet to date this fall of 2012. We are also spending countless hours looking for ways to improve our forum, advertise its existance, keep in touch with old and new members, and searching for new ones, along with making sure the policies are all in place to assure fairness and smooth transitation for the present and into the future.
There are fish clubs in the United States, and abroad in other countries, that are some 50 years old, plus or minus. We want our club to be here then, long after most if not all of us are gone.
I, and your other board members/officers continue to do our best to serve you and hope you realize we are human and falable, but knowing that every policy and procedure has a process from this point, that can be tweaked to our clubs most current needs or desires.
Thank you for your patience, and I hope you will continue to be satisfied with our representation of you to carry this club of ours into the future with structure, stability, and promise, for fantastic enjoyment now and forward.
Respectively,
Rick Easterly
MCAA President
aka ree123
And thank you fellow officers for the kind words. May I say, I am not only immensly enjoying the service to this wonderful club, but am gaining vast knowledge and respect for each of you as well !!!!!!!! --- I am honored to be your leader for this period of time, and sincerely hope we can continue to lay a structure for the best fish club we know to offer to all, and have a foundation in place for our kids and grandkids to enjoy !!!
Thank you for the time and dedication each of you offer to all the other members !!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jess Puff on Aug 18, 2011 6:49:25 GMT -6
He means best swap/meet to date this Fall of 2011...
|
|
|
|
Post by bnoel210 on Aug 18, 2011 7:50:57 GMT -6
Well im probably the newest member here and I just want to say that 2 years going this club is still very young and many small and big changes will happen in the future with us. As we grow and more members join it will be harder to please everyone, but I see our officers will try there best to please everyone, but at the same time there will be a few that dont agree with everything. We just have to stick out the rough patches cause all changes will be for the best even if we dont agree with it now you may once change your mind. Just remember we are young and many changes may come in the near future.
|
|
|
|
Post by ree123 on Aug 18, 2011 8:27:20 GMT -6
Thank you for correcting Jess, and well said Brian. Thank you for your input Brian. We do strive to please the majority, and am so sorry when that offends, but the club is to prevail. One day I, and all leaders, will have all changed. As a member only, of the future, I want to have this club around for a long long long time to serve my needs too.
|
|
|
|
Post by davidtcb1 on Aug 18, 2011 17:33:08 GMT -6
Hopefully these kind of disagreements are few and far between and when they do happen, they will be more easily dealt with given a highly accessible rule book. As said above, you can't please everyone all the time. We'd be lying to ourselves to argue or think otherwise. These kinds of rubs are what can drive people away from a fun thing like this, and I am hopeful that hasn't happened in this scenario. The reason people want to be involved in something like this is because it's fun and related to their passion. Folks can quickly get a bad taste in their mouths. After all, if we wanted to hear a bunch of bitching and moaning we'd just go watch the nightly news or stay at work. For many, this (i.e. the fish hobby, this club, etc.) is a well-deserved and welcomed escape from the daily grind. It would be a shame to see people shy away because of these types of petty tussles. That being said, I look forward to moving ahead with all interested parties on board and making this club and forum a huge success.
|
|
