de-humidifier

[davidtcb1]

Awesome! Where are you located again? How often do you remove/clean/replace the sponges? Do you have anything under the tanks? Plywood, styrofoam, etc. ?

You may want to post this link in a new thread, it's a good video everyone will want to see.

[ree123]

AWESOME !!!
This video explains things soooooo well !!!

My fish room, my pride and joy as my man cave, in spite of my years of improvements, is lacking, in comparison. I have some of these features in place, but not all of them.

I could afford $100 for an air exchanger if I could find another.
But my fish room appears to be only half the size of this one.
My de-humidifier does a great job, but is being overworked, and not keeping the humidity down enough.
Are there smaller air exchangers ?

I will be referencing back to this video often.
Thank you so much for sharing this !!!
I have more future plans, LoL, but then don't we all ?
Rick

[paddysdaddy]

Jan 16, 2012 10:59:27 GMT -6 davidtcb1 said:

Awesome! Where are you located again? How often do you remove/clean/replace the sponges? Do you have anything under the tanks? Plywood, styrofoam, etc. ?

You may want to post this link in a new thread, it's a good video everyone will want to see.

Thanks for the compliments! Much appreciated. I'm in KY, north of Lake Cumberland about 40 minutes.
Cleaning the sponge filters is rare. The in-house tanks have powerheads in big blocks of this same sponge and those get cleaned about 3-4 times a year. The fishroom air-powered sponges are cleaned maybe twice a year. Under the acrylic tanks there is 1/2" styro on top of the warehouse style wire shelves.

Rick, you are sure right that a fish room is never completely done! Mine got some improved air plumbing just this evening. There are smaller air exchangers, they are designed to fit on top of the air box for furnace/AC units.
(Just scored a ridiculous deal on a 75 gallon stainless Metaframe, slate bottomed tank...WOO HOO)

Thanks again, Guys

[davidtcb1]

Very neat. Would love to see how the water changing system works too! So the styrofoam is for cushioning, temperature, both?

[ree123]

I will keep my eyes peeled for the smaller version of the air exchanger. If you happen to run across one before I, please let me know.

Interesting that you found a Metaframe product you are excited to acquire. Seems several of us here have some of those vintage products and are proud of our finds. Myself included.
Glad you found a good deal. A 75 Metaframe was a really nice tank.
Is it usable or just for viewing dry ?

One of these days I might make a trip to spend some time with you. We'll talk about it more later.
Do hope you will be able to attend the club business meeting on the 25th. Would be great to meet you and share a few ideas.

Meantime, thank you for your input and links on our forum.

[ree123]

Dec 14, 2011 11:56:41 GMT -6 paddysdaddy said:

For big operations, an air exchanger is the only way to go. Mine is rated for 3,000 square feet and is in a 650 sq ft room. 4500 gallons, no tanks covered and it runs less than 20% of the time. Thanks to Craigs List and a road trip, this 1800$ machine was 100$. It is 1000 watts which seems like a lot until compared to multiple dehumidfiers, not to mention the short lifespan I experienced with DH's in much smaller applications. Not hard at all to install, two 8" ducts to the outside but would be more problematic if exterior wall was brick.

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OK Scott.

First my calculations. My fish room, which is 1/2 of our garage is 204 sq. feet. Approx 1500 cubic feet. I have approx. 1500 gallons of H20. Few tanks covered. Central heated room, central air supply to all tanks, no central H20 system.

My comp. research, thus far, tells me one can buy used and new, on line and from local chain DIY stores, such as Lowes and H.D.. Lots of them are on C.L. And e-bay, but I really don't know exaxctly what I am looking for. Also, I have read one can buy these AE systems with and without the ability to warm the incoming air. I have found smaller ones that say they run non stop, others with built in contols, and yet more with controls like a central home A/C heat system.

I understand your system was bought used and you got a great deal so you got more machine than you needed. But what is needed ?
I have not found a I.N. site yet that tells me how to know and figure what I need.

My search continues, and my de-humidifier will sufice for now, but by next winter I would like to have this as a future project to accomplish.

Having said all this, my question(s) to you for now, LoL, are ........
How does one calculate the size machine they need, and...
If one buys a AE system that heats the incoming air, which makes sense in winter, how does one turn off all that heat in mid summer and still use the machine to help reduce the humidity ?

I apprecaiate any advice you can provide.

[paddysdaddy]

Jan 17, 2012 10:49:27 GMT -6 @ree123 said:

Dec 14, 2011 11:56:41 GMT -6 paddysdaddy said:

For big operations, an air exchanger is the only way to go. Mine is rated for 3,000 square feet and is in a 650 sq ft room. 4500 gallons, no tanks covered and it runs less than 20% of the time. Thanks to Craigs List and a road trip, this 1800$ machine was 100$. It is 1000 watts which seems like a lot until compared to multiple dehumidfiers, not to mention the short lifespan I experienced with DH's in much smaller applications. Not hard at all to install, two 8" ducts to the outside but would be more problematic if exterior wall was brick.

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Rick, I share your inability to find info on line for these and my frustration resulted in the shot-in-the-dark method that worked.
I wouldn't go for a "heats the air" unit. The one of these I looked at had a heat tape strip like the ones used in travel trailer heat/AC units. Short life, minimal effectiveness and an amazing fire hazard.
My recommendation is for about 200 CFM for your room but you'll likely find ones well over that rating. Bigger is better, as they say.
For controls, I dearly wish mine had a simple timer to control it, it has a humidistat and that is pretty short lived IME, about 6 months life. AMazon and Ebay have provided these 100$ controllers for between 8 and 26$ but eventually I will have to pay retail or retrofit my unit to a timer.
If your collected water from you de-humidifier is not too problematic, I would stay with that method, DH's are so common on CL, second hand stores and yard sales, they'll likely be cheapest in the long run. Another alternative to sourcing an AE is to build one, I've seen DIY's online for that but I was chicken
The Metaframe tank is solid, there has been a sealing job with Silicone 1 or Silicone 2 but it needs cut out and the right stuff put in. ALL slate bottomed should be sealed, the tar joints were not reliable!


OK Scott.

First my calculations. My fish room, which is 1/2 of our garage is 204 sq. feet. Approx 1500 cubic feet. I have approx. 1500 gallons of H20. Few tanks covered. Central heated room, central air supply to all tanks, no central H20 system.

My comp. research, thus far, tells me one can buy used and new, on line and from local chain DIY stores, such as Lowes and H.D.. Lots of them are on C.L. And e-bay, but I really don't know exaxctly what I am looking for. Also, I have read one can buy these AE systems with and without the ability to warm the incoming air. I have found smaller ones that say they run non stop, others with built in controls, and yet more with controls like a central home A/C heat system.

I understand your system was bought used and you got a great deal so you got more machine than you needed. But what is needed ?
I have not found a I.N. site yet that tells me how to know and figure what I need.

My search continues, and my de-humidifier will sufice for now, but by next winter I would like to have this as a future project to accomplish.

Having said all this, my question(s) to you for now, LoL, are ........
How does one calculate the size machine they need, and...
If one buys a AE system that heats the incoming air, which makes sense in winter, how does one turn off all that heat in mid summer and still use the machine to help reduce the humidity ?

I apprecaiate any advice you can provide.

[ree123]

Thanks for the response.
Let me make sure I understand what may be a simple concept that I am not grasping.

If one bought a AE without the heat option, is one not installing a unit that blows warm air out of the fishroom to the outside, and bringing in ambient air temps from outside to the fishroom ?

In summer that would not matter so much, but in winter, is one not bringing in COLD air that can also possibly have as high a humidity as inside the room ?

Like I said, maybe I am not grasping the concept of the mechanics of this type unit.

[ree123]

BTW...Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. Might be simple to you, but I am not grasping the whole concept, yet.

[ree123]

Jan 17, 2012 14:03:46 GMT -6 @ree123 said:

Thanks for the response.
Let me make sure I understand what may be a simple concept that I am not grasping.

If one bought a AE without the heat option, is one not installing a unit that blows warm air out of the fishroom to the outside, and bringing in ambient air temps from outside to the fishroom ?

In summer that would not matter so much, but in winter, is one not bringing in COLD air that can also possibly have as high a humidity as inside the room ?

Like I said, maybe I am not grasping the concept of the mechanics of this type unit.

Hoping for further conversation with paddysdaddy.

BTW...My DH is keeping my room @ 75% most days according to the gauge on the machine. It feels a little dryer than that to me, but that is what it says almost constant.
It is drained thru the wall to outside, so it can run year round if needed.
It is set to 65% and runs almost continually. Ocasional shut offs.

[ree123]

Hoping for further conversation with paddysdaddy.

[paddysdaddy]

Rick, I feel your pain on not understanding this concept. I didn't believe it then decided to see it work before rendering an opinion. It is not a simple fan blowing warm air out and cold winter air in.
It "recycles" the indoor air temp TO the inbound air, at a rate of about 80% effeciency
The mechanicals making this happen are so rediculously simple....Outgoing air is passed thru a small radiator (size of a heater core in the dash of a vehicle) and inbound air passes over a second small radiator. Both radiators are plumbed together, share the same fluid and have a circulation pump to keep flow to both radiators going. In a winter example, the outbound air warms the fluid (radiator #1) and the inbound air is warmed by the fluid (radiator #2).
I was in extreme denial til I saw the results
My unit is about 1000 CFM (900 at low speed and 1190 at high speed), so my room [24'x24'x9' ceiling =~5200 cubic feet] will cycle once every 5 minutes when the machine is on. Just bringing in outdoor air at this rate for even 30 seconds at our winter temps would be disasterous! This AE reduces humidity about 1% per minute, 4500 gallons of water in the room (no tanks covered) and the humidity without the AE stabilises about 90%!
Note: If you get surface mold flare-ups, oil based Kilz paint will stop it in it's tracks!
I hope this clears up confusion but if not, Rick, come see it in action. Break open a beer and let's tell fish stories!
Scott

[paddysdaddy]

PS This system does not work effectively when it is raining outside! Winter humidity is typically lower than summer but the AE will only bring in outdoor air and warm it, it does not "dehumidify" the air in the warming process.

[davidtcb1]

So do you also have a regular dehumidifier(s) to supplement the AE?

[paddysdaddy]

David, in the warmest days of summer I use a lower tech method-the old fan-in-the-window thing