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Post by bamaplants on May 23, 2012 21:12:07 GMT -6
I have gotten a lot of questions and requests to go over some of the things I talked about At the Swap Meet again.. Some of you I have answered and some of you I have put off for a minute.. I think going over a lot of the details of a planted Tank Low to Mid tech is the best thing to do here. There is a TON of info online but much of it is not clear and much of it is conflicting in point. So I am going to try to give you a step by step guide to these techniques..
It is going to take a few to get it all done But I hope some of you at least read and ask questions about what you have read so far.. And I sincerely hope that this helps to encourage you to do at least one planted tank.
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Post by bamaplants on May 23, 2012 22:54:46 GMT -6
Low tech tanks refer to planted tanks which are not actively infused with Carbon dioxide (CO2) and therfore do not require all the complicated equipment/paraphernalia/hassle that comes with using CO2 in your tanks. Mid Tech Tanks are tanks that ARE infused with CO2 but not pressurized with a tank of CO2 and all the equipment associated with it. Tanks like these use lower light levels than “Hi-tech” tanks and plant growth is typically slower than you get in CO2 infused Hi-Tech tanks. Your decision to go with a low-tech , Mid-Techor hi-tech planted tank setup depends on several factors such as your main goal for a planted tank and the amount of time, energy and monetary resources you are able to put into your tank. Each style has it’s pro’s and con’s.
Advantages of Low/Mid tech Planted Tanks
1) No Major testing and no Major water changes are needed (This means that you can leave your tank alone for a week or two and it will still be in excellent shape)
2) A lot lower need to do pruning due to slower growth
3) Very low need for fertilizer dosing, and then only once in a while
4) No risk of overdosing with CO2 and killing your fish and inverts
5) If any imbalance does occur in the tank (nutrients, traces, or sudden ammonia spike from decaying plants/food), algae growth is slower than than it is in hi-tech tanks allowing more lee way and time to correct for this imbalance.
Disadvantages of Low/Mid Tech Planted Tanks
1) The slower plant growth can be boring for some hobbyists. If you’re the Type of person who feels the need to prune and rescape every few days then you might not enjoy this Technique as much.
2) It can be harder to grow some plants which are very dependent on high CO2 levels for plant growth. However a majority of plants can be grown in these types of tanks, including a lot of the so called “High-light” plants like HC. ANd Many of the plants absolutely dependent on pressurized CO2 are actually not aquatic plants at all!!
this is the Easier or hassle free technique for growing aquatic plants. You have to keep the patience to wait it out a little longer to achieve your end goals concerning your aquascaping ! Things are not dead slow though. A Low Tech tank that is established and in good balance can use trimming about every week to week and a half
The Basics
Before I Talk about how to set up your tank using this technique, I’d like to go into some of the logic behind it.
The lack of pressurized CO2 additions in a low-tech tank basically means that the speed of plant growth is lower than in hi-tech tanks. Because of the lower growth rates, the rate of nutrient uptake by the plants is also equally lowered. Because of this, the plants can sometimes survive purely on the nutrition provided from fish waste and decaying food. The drawback with relying purely on fish waste and fish food for nutrients is that the ratio of N,P,K (Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium) is skewed and can cause a nutrient imbalance. This can result in stunted growth in certain plants and can also make it very hard to grow some types of plants which are specifically sensitive to one or more of these nutrients.
To overcome this, what we can do is dose Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium and traces in very small amounts and only occasionally {like once a week or possibly once every 2 weeks}. AND to prevent any buildup of these nutrients to an excess, we can Actually skip the dosing completely once every couple of months so that the plants use up any excess nutrients that remain in the water column. In this way we can reliably keep a non-limiting amount of nutrients in the tank which allows all the plants to grow without any nutrient caused inhibition or yellowing or stunting.
It is important to keep in mind that high levels of N,P,K, Fe and other traces DO NOT lead to algae. This has been has been tested out extensively and it has been shown that this is simply not true. However, even small amounts of Ammonia (causes could be a smalli cycle, dying plants, a fish overloading, not enough plants) or fluctuating CO2 levels can trigger algae growth. The plants and algae are both limited by low CO2 levels in these low-tech tanks. At low light levels and non abundant( non limiting) nutrients, plants can adapt much better to these conditions than algae can. It's important to have a high plant biomass in the tank so that the plants can quickly cycle any Ammonia introduced into the system from decaying food/fish waste.
Things To Be Concerned about
Do not increase your lighting!( ok I mean dramatically-- lol there are times when I will suggest you increase your light duration but it will always be a minor increase or gradual one.) Increased light levels with a generally low CO2 level make it much easier for algae to adapt and grow. Vascular Plants find it more difficult to adapt to high-light but low CO2 conditions while algae can do much better in just such a condition. It is for this reason that often Most people are able to fix their algae problems in the early stages by merely lowering their light intensity or duration.
Also make sure that you DO NOT perform any significant water changes! Tap water has a different amount of dissolved CO2 compared to what is in your tank water. If you do regular water changes you are causing fluctuations in the CO2 levels in your tank which makes perfect conditions in which algae can start flourishing. Basically you only need to perform top offs for evaporated water. (Caution: This no-water-change rule should only be used in tanks with high plant density(biomass). If you have a tank that is lightly planted , then do at least 25% water changes every week. The no-water-change rule only works if you have enough plants in your tank. Enough Plants that they can help cycle the tank and maintain water quality alone. The same goes for overstocked tanks. While you might risk some algae from the water changes, your fish's health is the highest priority and the lack of decent plant mass might cause a rise in ammonia/nitrite levels which could hurt pr kill your fish.) Do large (60-75%) water changes after any major reaquascaping like when you pull out plants from the substrate and move things around. This is to remove any toxins/ammonia that you might have released from the substrate with all the uprooting. And do NOT do such types of reaquascaping,uprooting plants, or digging in the substrate any more often than once every 3 months.
OK I am done for tonight but I will do another installment tomorrow..
Ken
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Post by bgates on May 25, 2012 9:38:19 GMT -6
so when getting started with plants how many plants is to many plants. can you over stock with plants?
what do you use to dose for N, P, K, also at what point do you need dose for N,P,K?
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 11:36:16 GMT -6
Too many Plants??-- honestly there is no such thing.. I would suggest looking from above and seeing no more than about 15% of the substrate.. I also suggest s tarting with cheaper fast growing plants and gradually adjusting the plants to more of the plants you WANT as the tank has cycled and established itself..
Dosing is easy and I would wait for 3 weeks after initial set up.. for a 20 gal tank ( adjust to meet your tank volume) dose once a week and never all on same day. you can also skip one dose a month of each to avoid any possible build-up
1/4 Teaspoon of Seachem Equilibrium (for traces and Calcium + Magnesium)
1/8 Teaspoon of KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
1/32 Teaspoon of KH2PO4 (Potassium Mono Phosphate)
more on this soon I promise..
I missed last nights addition so I will be on here making additions to this thread tonight..
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Post by plecoman on May 25, 2012 12:31:11 GMT -6
Thanks for the thread Ken! I've not been much of a plant guy and I still don't have more than a few anubias and javas fern in my tanks. I'm looking forward to learning more about plants from you and hopefully, in the future, I'll try my hand at a planted tank.
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 14:24:13 GMT -6
I hope you will try eventually.. IT is NOT as tough as it often reads... I swear.. lol I have so many irons in the fire that if it was that tough I couldn't do it at all.. LOL I am butchering pigs today.. one down one to go and tomorrow chickens and quail.. LOL My point being that it is not that tough.. there are some rules you kinda have to follow but they are not that tough and not that darn time consuming..
and all this may be part of why I am such a proponent of Lower Tech ( not using pressurized CO2) LMAO
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Post by bnoel210 on May 25, 2012 14:38:36 GMT -6
What scares me the most about plants is the money for the initial setup between lights, co2 and all that other stuff. Spending all that money to figure out I cant keep even java fern alive keeps me away.
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Post by rickl on May 25, 2012 14:41:43 GMT -6
That's the beauty of a low-tech setup, bnoel. What size tank are you looking at? For low-light plants, tou can get by with just shoplights crowded on top of the tank. Or even a bunch of spiral CFL bulbs. CO2 injection? Not in low-tech! The dirt's a little pricy (gotta get a dig in at bamaplants  ) but the startup cost for low-tech isn't all that high (as long as you buy cheap plants, or fish them out of the prez's pond when he's not looking) -Rick (the armchair aquarist) |
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Post by bnoel210 on May 25, 2012 15:03:43 GMT -6
Ya but also got to look at the fish im keeping now. All africans. Maybe when I retire in under 3 yrs ill get a 20 long and get my feet wet
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 15:29:42 GMT -6
yeah at first glance the soil may seem pricey.. BUT when ya know what it takes( mainly time) to get it ready for tank use.. it does not seem so pricey.. LOL a batch of 20-30 bags take s me about 5-6 weeks to get it ready.
And NO CO2 tanks and regulators and diffusors needed for the lower tech tanks.. You are not really limited from using any plants you want to use( yeah there are a couple plants that would be a no no but they are plants that do NOT grow underwater naturally anyway) Ferts are minimal.. 30 bucks in ferts will last you about a decade.( and there are other fert methods that work well I will tell ya about that are also MUCH cheaper but I am gonna wait for a while til you folks try some of my suggestions so you won't freak out on me and say I am trying to kill your tanks.. LMAO)
Lights.. ok I am jumping ahead and I will say more on lights tonight BUT Shop Lights are the deal... they are inexpensive easy to wire inexpensive to bulb and enough power for most anything you need... on larger tanks maybe a couple but most tanks one double bulb shop light is enough and maybe too much.
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Post by rickl on May 25, 2012 15:49:41 GMT -6
Yeah, Having read the instructions, I don't find it at all diffcult to believe that there's a lot of labor in that "dirt". Just trying to be punny . I need to set up a 10-gal tank to get my feet wet in plants, I'll probably be in the market for MTS (mineralized topsoil, not malaysian trumpet snails... funny how that acrony means different things on different aquatic forums) come fall. -Rick (the armchair aquarist) |
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 19:28:37 GMT -6
The Planted Tank Set-up
Substrate
Choosing and setting up your substrate is very important. Basically any type of porous substrate with a high Cation exchange capacity such as Flourite, Eco-complete, Onyx-sand, etc. would be perfect for this technique. Add mulm ( filter scrapings, some gravel vaccuum debris) from an established tank into this newly setup substrate. It will establish bacteria in your substrate faster.
Using soil substrates, Can drastically reduce water column fertilization or Make it completely un needed.,You have to be wary of some of the risks involved in using soil as a substrate. The main problem is that it is hard to know what is in the soil that you are using for your tank. You risk introducing toxic chemicals and/ or parasites should the soil be contaminated with such. Also frequently soils can leach large amounts of ammonia into the water. This can end in an algae disaster as well as be harmful to your fish. Knowing the soil you are using for these reasons is very important.. Always Buy from reputable sources.. Know the process it has gone through and Never go willy nilly into your backyard and get soil to use in your tank. Also NEVER use commercial Potting mixes in your tank. While they are nutrient rich, they will also float and cloud your water horribly, and undoubtedly end with an uncontrollable ammonia spike.
Mineralized Soil is amazing stuff ( Aquasoil being the most popular commercial brand)and is definitely the best and most nutrient rich substrate available. Since it is packed with nutrients you can get away with no fertilization at all in a Low-Tech Non CO2 technique, save for the occasional dose of traces. However over time as the nutrients in the substrate get used up you will probably need to recharge it. Many Small time suppliers of Mineralized Soil will also offer recharge capsules to be used at about the year and a half mark with Mineralized soil set-ups
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 21:07:33 GMT -6
Lighting
Lighting plays an VERY important role in the planted tank. It is the driving force behind photosynthesis. In the case of low-tech and Mid-tech(non pressurized CO2 tanks) you need to make sure that you do not go overboard with your lights. Don’t make the all-too-common mistake of assuming that more lights, kept on for longer periods will make your plants grow better. About all you would be doing is encouraging algae growth.
Although the Watts per gallon rule is a very general one, and not entirely accurate, it still works alright as a basic guideline especially for online discussions. For all my discussions here, I am talking about a tank no more than about 20 inches Tall. If your tank is Taller then add .5 watts/gallon for each part or total of 8 additional inches.
For this technique make sure to never go above 2 Watts per gallon, 1.5 WPG being an ideal target.( Again this is for a 20 inch tall tank.. for a 21-28 inch tall tank MAX would be 2.5 and aim would be for 2 W/Gal) For planted tanks, you should ideally look to have bulbs that are rated between 5500K-8000K. 6500K is a very popular choice and easy to come by.
My suggestion is to use long florescent bulbs But never EVER use incandescent. T-5 s are efficient and work with this technique but I would NEVER use a T-5HO unless we were talking about a VERY tall Tank Like some of the 60 gallon Hexes or something similarly TALL. Shop Lights work wonderfully. They come in varying lengths the bulbs are easy to obtain and are CHEAP in comparison to t-5s. Do NOT buy the "aquarium" bulbs. They are no different from the sunlight bulbs, but cost more... CFLS are cool for household use but have some drawbacks for aquariums. First drawback is that they are more of a spot light bulb and only project light over a small area so several are required to cross the top of a tank to make sure all the plants get their share of light. Also they are stronger than actual wattage BUT not as high as the perceived wattage listed but somewhere in between.. for this reason.. a tank using these CFLS should also have an increase of .5 total WPG( and I am going with the perceived wattage for this-- and increase the wattage more for tanks deeper than 20 inches ) . Also remember to ALWAYS replace your bulbs after 12 months.. the wavelengths deteriorate over time and 1 year is about all a Florescent Bulb is " good" for
WOW that was a lot of stuff.. so take a second and read all that again.. LOL
One additional suggestion on lighting... I have spoken to a few of you already that have talked about making your own canopies and hoods.. good idea!!! you can have them look the way you want and save a ton of money... If you do this or even use a bare shop light I would suggest using Mylar as a liner.. IT is cheap and available at most all hobby shops and online at ebay etc.. it is EASY to work with and pretty darn cheap . So Line the reflector portion or underside of the canopy with it. This will project ALL of the light down toward the water column.. If you a r e saving money then collect all your kids and kids friends balloons and split them open.. LOL or wait and add this on when you have the money.
When you first setup your tank you should have a photoperiod of only around 6 hours( this is the total time the Tank lights are ON). After a couple of weeks you can bump it up to around 8-9 hours( This is where we break the rule of keep your light duration the same-- but after this your light duration should remain the same unless you have algae issues that need to be rectified). You shouldn’t push it any higher than the 8-9 hours and may need to cut it back somewhat if algae becomes an issue.. It’s a good idea to buy an automatic light timer (6-7 bucks in walmart) to make sure that your plants are getting the same duration of lighting every day. If you go 10 hours on some days and 6 on others then it could lead to algae and will also throw the plants off of their “daily routine”. Also do NOT run your light continuously. Aquatic plants photosynthesize then respire. Their photosynthetic phase duration varies but typically 2 hours is max for most plants so run your light 2 hours then off for two hours then on for two hours then off for two hours.. Now, If you do this, you CAN increase your light on period to about 10 hours but again any more than that can be excessive -- that is 2 hours on 2 hours off for five cycles..
ok in the next installments I will discuss filtration and plant choices and quantity
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Post by bamaplants on May 25, 2012 23:13:36 GMT -6
Ya but also got to look at the fish im keeping now. All africans. Maybe when I retire in under 3 yrs ill get a 20 long and get my feet wet ok man... There is a tank pic from a friend of mine used on Aquabotanic.com on top banner.. Two Mbunas with riccia and nuphar and jungle vals.. I know this tank and it is in wonderful shape , the plants are unmolested and there is a lot more than two mbunas in the tank. I have not asked for permission to post it here so here is a link to go see it.. at top banner www.aquabotanic.com I was owner of shelldwellers.com for a number of years.. there are tons of planted tanks filled with shellies on there as well. here is one and I have permission to post it here there are a lot of plants that make themselves unpalatable to fish Fissidens is a great moss, riccia, Nuphar is a great lily, crinums ( all of them) do well, dwarf sag does well, Jungle vals do well other vals do well but tend to grow much shorter in cichlid tanks, Hygrophila balsamica though it takes some acclimation time so as to not knock your fish out.. LOL and the list goes on.. I understand your point and not trying to argue at all.. Just want you to know that there are lots of plants that can handle the rough and tumble africans.. especially Tangs. South Americans live with utter tons of plants around them all the time.. I was thrilled and amazed when I went to Honduras, Guatemala, Belize, etc and saw some of this fish in their native habitats with plants all around them Attachments:
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Post by davidtcb1 on May 27, 2012 11:53:40 GMT -6
Ken, I really enjoyed your presentation at the swap. Would love to hear more. Like I told you afterward, I would like to try a planted setup again down the line. I tried it early on, of course failed, and haven't been down that road again. It's good to know that success and small money can go hand in hand. Thanks for the information as well, we are lucky to have you guys as sponsors, active participants and sources of valuable information.
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) but the startup cost for low-tech isn't all that high (as long as you buy cheap plants, or fish them out of the prez's pond when he's not looking)
